EVE Information Portal

bringing to new forum page for continued discussion.


overall. character bazaar will be cheaper any day.

but if you say bought a character from the bazaar and found it missing a skill, use an injector to fix it without buying a new character or w8ing weeks.

but pporporsionally, bazaar is cheaper per SP.

while injectors will cost more for the same ammount of SP (thus ideal for small boosts.)

pay 2 win?


as opposed to buying a pre made character?






cry more doomcryer
(btw. if u want YOUR game to end. continue to taunt goons....u know their motto. "we aren't here to ruin the game, we're here to ruin YOUR game". even i know that xD)

I've seen tons of post explaining this.....what are you reading??

If you really don't know then I say stick around for another 6 months from now and bare witness to the lifeless game that Eve will become when you see 1 week old toons flying around in Marauders. The sense of accomplishment would be gone from Eve forever and if you are a gamer then you should already know that without a sense of accomplishment or evolution then there is no reason to play any game for an extended time. Your interest in such a game would naturally decline over a certain time on it's own, because it's part of human nature for wanting to evolve.

Who cares if 1 week old characters are in marauders? Further what sort of actually interested player determines the value of their trained skills by who doesn't have them rather than what they do?

Is that what people really play for? The ability to say "Look what I can fly that you can't!"?

Especially when the ability to do so came from just waiting it out for the most part?

How do those who claim to like the game the most do the best at making the player base look like our entertainment is primarily shallow posturing?

Edit: So basically what I'm getting from this is that the game doesn't actually break mechanically, or further this doesn't break any specific activity, but rather is based on the idea of attaching ones sense of progress and achievement to not even a ticker, but rather a queue of players and their place in it as decided by when they started the ticker.

Is that right?

the feedback wasn't as negative as you peeps think.

the negative nancies were vocal about it yes, very vocal. but they were the minority.


in terms of number of posts. negative nancies had the most

in terms of number of people who LIKED the idea, they had the majority, even if they didn't spam post it like the negative nancies.

Asking those questions asks people to actually quantify standing in the way of a feature others might use and see the value in.

And it especially focuses on the fact that this value is first of all subjective. It's not a lack of understanding, I understand fully well, but it quite frankly certainly justifies neither the claims that the game will die nor the general idea of why it's bad for the game. Basically it says it's bad because some people with an attachment to the concept of Eve characters being in an immutable queue is more than their personal feelings and objectively negative fact.

It ironically does so while excluding those who see this as a positive and their reasoning or motivations, but no one would point the same accusation of not understanding that direction. Rather they'd often just assume the worst and argue from that assumption.

It also calls to question the depths of personal goal setting and achievement, the actually advertized sandbox portion of the game. Rather than draw value in the experience from here it's instead being drawn mechanically by a measure set in the game itself. In fact, this idea turns that queue into an actionable goal.

Daniela Doran has decided that her place within the SP hierarchy is important enough to cancel out the good in the game, which makes her consideration of that valid to call out, assuming she believes what she says.

I understand it, I just think it a poor platform from which to condemn CCP or predict the death of Eve.

Edit: Also a sense of accomplishment isn't something I don't have or value, rather it's that I'd be hard pressed to consider something given to me as part of the price of admission an accomplishment.

That original post was when..around 10-15-15? That's plenty of time for that moron Dave Stark to start up another alt. So I'm betting you and Dave Stark are one and the same.

I for one don't see the current announced feature as an endpoint for changes of this sort but rather the beginning. I'm pretty sure CCP would prefer to create a system for direct skill point buying as it is simpler and would be easier to use. However, they are probably afraid of player backlash from such a radical change being done *all at once*.

However, with the current feature you can dvide the player community by bribing a portion of them with direct incentives: they can sell skill points if they wish while CCP still makes money on the injectors. This is clearly a political move, and it's at least partially working. You can curry favor with both buyers and sellers of skill points rather than just the buyers this way.

But many of us (the majority I believe) are opposed to this scheme because we believe it will gradually destroy the game as we know it, especially if there is an even greater shift toward micro-transactions coming. I think there's a fair chance that within a year CCP will drop the whole "skill point trading" scheme and replace it with "direct skill point purchasing" from CCP only. There would be no more limits on supply since you wouldn't have to wait on players to decide to sell skill points. A radical change to be sure, but an easier one to make politically once you have conditioned players to accept the notion via the intermediate scheme of skill point trading.

Both schemes are pay-to-win, but the second is a little more blatant. In either case, I don't think CCP would be all that willing to place limits on the amount of skill points a player can purchase. This is clearly a cash grab move, and they won't want to limit the potential revenue they obviously think they can make from it. The notion of attracting a lot of new players with this I think is a smokescreen; the real goal is probably to just milk more money from the current player base.

Another forseeable possibility would be a complete transition to micro-transactions and a free-to-play model in which most skill points have to be purchased unless you are willing to wait for skill points to accumulate, presumably at a much slower rate than today. I don't know that EVE could make such a transition nor whether it would make any business sense, but it definitely would alter the character of the game and player base in big way.

Some people have mentioned even dropping skills entirely. I'm not sure that would be better or worse than pay-to-win, but it would almost certainly result in a higher rate of player turnover, and probably some amount of extra player growth for a while. It would drop barriers of access to certain parts of the game on a time basis, but players would still need to develop experience in playing. Access to ISK would also be a limiting factor in the beginning unless they buy lots of PLEX. The lack of skill barriers would appeal to impatient new players for a while, but the steep learning curve for the game might still ultimately turn them off.

I'm not sure how I feel about a no-skills game, and it would definitely be different than today's EVE. However, all of the pay-to-win schemes for skill-point buying I think are major negatives. The latter make it too easy for a few players with tons of money to spend while making things worse for those that can't. The latter would find it harder to compete than they do today. That's why this whole thing is pay-to-win.

Your definition of consequence seems pretty narrow. Even if someone can pay to undo something, the fact that they have to make that payment is a consequence. If they have to endure some loss in the process of erasing, that's also a consequence.

So the answer is simple, if erasing has a cost, mistakes still have consequences.

The price could increase by quite a bit for characters with odd skills.