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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Lavayar
Haidamaky
UA Fleets
#721 - 2016-01-20 08:07:48 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
And in case anyone is looking for my reaction:

I wasn't a fan when this was first brought to the CSM. I still have concerns over it, but I've been talking with some of the proponents (players) for the idea, and what they're saying has some merit. My main concern stems from the "I have to pay how much to catch up?" reaction it may cause in some new players.


And for everyone who thinks that this will help new players I'll cite again one of CSM members.

So, how much, CCP?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#722 - 2016-01-20 08:13:28 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
It is a shame many of the r/e posters openly admit to no longer actually play the game, with many more simply playing skill cues online. This is of course the best group to garner feedback from, isn't it..

Tiberius - Try doing a show all posts on the original r/e thread, Reddit has a very special way of "hiding" posts - If a Dev thread becomes too "anti eve" it is soon "moderated".
Ironically, even if that were an accurate representation of the population, wouldn't that make their input all the more relevant? After all skill queue online is the part of the game most being shaken up. Everything else operates as normal.

Further reddit is an echo chamber, the posts you see (without sorting for controvertials) are those that are popular by it's function. No one said people didn't disagree there, but by the functions of reddit the popular views rise to the top.
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#723 - 2016-01-20 08:53:32 UTC
New player will have no ISK to buy this skill injectors. Old player's alts will get rapidly developed so one day old char will be able to fly T3 destroyer and laugh at other newbies, who cant. "Look, I am only 2 weeks old and my killboard is full of *** killed! Thats the way EvE must be played, if you can not match this you sucks. I am new and I am op! bla... bla... bla..."

Absolutely free head start for newcomers!. Just click the link and get extra 250 000 SP!
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#724 - 2016-01-20 09:14:05 UTC
Nankeen Heron wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
I've never understood why CCP just doesn't have some kind of voting option for these hotly debated feature discussion.


CSM Elections?

I don't have a problem with skill extraction/injection, but why not simplify the process of redistributing SP for a given character?

Havng played the game for many years, I've trained all kinds of random stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time, but never actually use (PI anyone?) Being able to transfer the SP from those bad decisions to another skill seems fair enough to me - I've already spent the time (and ISK) training it.

CSM elections? Oh you mean the farce held each year, where nominees are divided up among the groups with a vested interest in representation and voting lists distributed to line members.

You can now (as of February) redistribute those skills, you just get to pay for it and cop the diminishing returns.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
wizzard66
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#725 - 2016-01-20 09:15:27 UTC
Bad bad bad idea
Mag's
Azn Empire
#726 - 2016-01-20 09:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
MiSANTHR0PE wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
I'm pretty ambivalent regarding the entire notion of skill trading. I'm hard-pressed to really find anything overly objectionable (to me) about the idea itself. This part of the blog really stood out to me, however:

Quote:
The blog sparked a really great discussion in the EVE community. We decided to be fairly hands off and see where it would lead without us trying to persuade anyone. We weren’t sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that you’re also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, I am now here to announce that we will be adding Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release.


Did you guys hire a Fox News staffer to ghost write this?

On its very best day, the response to this idea could never be described as anything other than, "Extremely contentious." Making it sound like it has been predominantly supported and, as good little Devs, you've listened to the community, is weapons-grade PR spin.


It's because CCP doesn't read their own forums & use Reddit instead. (The idea didn't go down too bad over there)


I imagine it's less the venue, and more that they heard what they wanted to hear while conveniently tuning out the rest.

The blog is even worded in a way that it can still be technically correct: I'm sure many of us do, indeed, think it's a good idea. Of course, "many" isn't a relative quantifier, such as "most" or "a majority" - it's just an arbitrary value of "a lot". Obviously many of us also think it's a ******* terrible idea, but that didn't receive any mention for some reason. Roll

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but the whole blog reads like an infomercial to me.
I called it back in the original thread. This was a done deal from the start. The first blog was merely a PR stunt.
I also said in another thread they would ignore the feedback that didn't fit their stance and focus on the ones that did.

I see they have done away with the charade regarding the bazaar this time and focused on the true agenda. I'm still waiting to see a reason why we need this, other than a money grab from CCP. The whole helping newbros line is an absolute joke. There are far better ways to do that without fleecing them this way.

While I'm undecided on what to do with my account, I do know CCP are never getting another penny of my money again.
The wife's is happy with that, so thanks for some good from this. Lol What I'll do after I decide, well who knows.

Oh and I honestly think, this will eventually bite you in the ass CCP.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Samus Arkain
Remnants of the Forgotten
Seekers of the Unseen
#727 - 2016-01-20 09:22:25 UTC
I don't normally post on these forums. However, I will quit this game if it becomes as simple as a big wallet pays for skills. I have worked for years training a very specific skill plan, and the game will ruin such accomplishments overnight by this action. I have long tried to ignore the rumors that CCP no longer listens to its players and just does what it wants. However, in the most recent post they claim that a lot of players seem on board with this idea. A quick look through this set of comments show that is untrue. Clearly a great deal of players are upset with the idea, and you are more than likely about to make another decision that will significantly damage this game. Many players aren't even aware of what you're about to do, and when I notified them, they were very upset. Sadly, it's a decision that cannot be undone once made, as many characters will already be significantly altered only days after this action. So please, see it for what it is now, and do not ruin this excellent game.

TL:DR? Don't do it.

Sea.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#728 - 2016-01-20 09:30:12 UTC
This is a clear example of confirmation bias. When this was first suggested an overwhelming amount of players voiced their disapproval, yet here comes the day we will see this bullshit mechanic implemented.

For me, personally, this is where I am going to step away and stop throwing money at CCP to keep their game alive. The last time I did so was during monoclegate.. I doubt I will return again this time.
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#729 - 2016-01-20 09:43:38 UTC
Can you extract points on a trial account ?

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
Dosperado
Ethereal Morality
The Initiative.
#730 - 2016-01-20 09:48:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Dosperado
Destitute Tehol Beddict wrote:
CCP can you please have the skill point extractor "Extract" 512,000 SP instead of "500,000". 500,000 does not make sense the way skills are right now. if you inject SP you will have 12,000 left over if you try to get lvl5 in 2 level 1 skills and or 1 level 2 skills.


What about removing this **** completely and lay off the developer who had this utterly sick wacky idea? Maybe I'm going to resub again then. Maybe.

Either way this is going to be a ripoff....

EVE Veteran
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#731 - 2016-01-20 09:51:21 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
It is a shame many of the r/e posters openly admit to no longer actually play the game, with many more simply playing skill cues online. This is of course the best group to garner feedback from, isn't it..

Tiberius - Try doing a show all posts on the original r/e thread, Reddit has a very special way of "hiding" posts - If a Dev thread becomes too "anti eve" it is soon "moderated".
Ironically, even if that were an accurate representation of the population, wouldn't that make their input all the more relevant? After all skill queue online is the part of the game most being shaken up. Everything else operates as normal.

Further reddit is an echo chamber, the posts you see (without sorting for controvertials) are those that are popular by it's function. No one said people didn't disagree there, but by the functions of reddit the popular views rise to the top.

As most of those I know playing skill cue online have lost interest in the current game play, I don't see it as being much of a shake up, there is still nothing to get them to login so nothing achieved. Those with higher skill levels who no longer login are often waiting for the next big change that makes eve exciting again, TSP's offer them little to nothing.

And of course Reddit is totally unbiased when it comes to "controversial". A post or thread that is controversial *and* popular can still be down voted via a simple jabber ping.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#732 - 2016-01-20 10:00:47 UTC
Mag's wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
MiSANTHR0PE wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
I'm pretty ambivalent regarding the entire notion of skill trading. I'm hard-pressed to really find anything overly objectionable (to me) about the idea itself. This part of the blog really stood out to me, however:

Quote:
The blog sparked a really great discussion in the EVE community. We decided to be fairly hands off and see where it would lead without us trying to persuade anyone. We weren’t sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that you’re also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters. After going through a lot of feedback while refining the design, I am now here to announce that we will be adding Skill Trading to New Eden and it is currently scheduled for our February release.


Did you guys hire a Fox News staffer to ghost write this?

On its very best day, the response to this idea could never be described as anything other than, "Extremely contentious." Making it sound like it has been predominantly supported and, as good little Devs, you've listened to the community, is weapons-grade PR spin.


It's because CCP doesn't read their own forums & use Reddit instead. (The idea didn't go down too bad over there)


I imagine it's less the venue, and more that they heard what they wanted to hear while conveniently tuning out the rest.

The blog is even worded in a way that it can still be technically correct: I'm sure many of us do, indeed, think it's a good idea. Of course, "many" isn't a relative quantifier, such as "most" or "a majority" - it's just an arbitrary value of "a lot". Obviously many of us also think it's a ******* terrible idea, but that didn't receive any mention for some reason. Roll

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but the whole blog reads like an infomercial to me.
I called it back in the original thread. This was a done deal from the start. The first blog was merely a PR stunt.
I also said in another thread they would ignore the feedback that didn't fit their stance and focus on the ones that did.

I see they have done away with the charade regarding the bazaar this time and focused on the true agenda. I'm still waiting to see a reason why we need this, other than a money grab from CCP. The whole helping newbros line is an absolute joke. There are far better ways to do that without fleecing them this way.

While I'm undecided on what to do with my account, I do know CCP are never getting another penny of my money again.
The wife's is happy with that, so thanks for some good from this. Lol

Oh and I honestly think, this will eventually bite you in the ass CCP.


I also called this in the original thread. It was so obvious what CCP were doing it was embarrassing.

I stopped paying for my 5 accounts 2 years ago, when CCP’s attitude pi55ed me off to the point of no return. I’m just using ISK now and will never pay them another penny.
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#733 - 2016-01-20 10:01:33 UTC
SoapyTits wrote:
0 – 10 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added



DO EEEEEET!!!
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#734 - 2016-01-20 10:04:52 UTC  |  Edited by: SoapyTits
Also - old players that doesnt like new players to have an edge SP-wise, go mine in high-sec. Gaming-skillz are needed to play a game.
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#735 - 2016-01-20 10:22:16 UTC
SoapyTits wrote:
Also - old players that doesnt like new players to have an edge SP-wise, go mine in high-sec. Gaming-skillz are needed to play a game.


At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious (which you seem to have missed), us old players were once new players. We seemed to manage and are still here.

Just grow a pair and skill up like we did.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
SoapyTits
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#736 - 2016-01-20 10:26:28 UTC
Malou Hashur wrote:
SoapyTits wrote:
Also - old players that doesnt like new players to have an edge SP-wise, go mine in high-sec. Gaming-skillz are needed to play a game.


At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious (which you seem to have missed), us old players were once new players. We seemed to manage and are still here.

Just grow a pair and skill up like we did.


Lol - so its brave to have patience?


Also - back then u were too blinded to complain, fapping away in spaceships :P - today gamers want dynamic and challenging gameplay - they dont want to sit and wait in order to fit w/e, or do w/e.
Malou Hashur
Enterprise Holdings
#737 - 2016-01-20 10:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Malou Hashur
SoapyTits wrote:
Malou Hashur wrote:
SoapyTits wrote:
Also - old players that doesnt like new players to have an edge SP-wise, go mine in high-sec. Gaming-skillz are needed to play a game.


At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious (which you seem to have missed), us old players were once new players. We seemed to manage and are still here.

Just grow a pair and skill up like we did.


Lol - so its brave to have patience?


Also - back then u were too blinded to complain, fapping away in spaceships :P - today gamers want dynamic and challenging gameplay - they dont want to sit and wait in order to fit w/e, or do w/e.


WOW exists for people like you, go there. EVE used to be different but CCP are trying to change that.

CCP Philosophy ==>>

  1. If it works, break it. If it’s broken, leave it and break something else.

  2. Ignore all Forum comments that raise issues and concerns about our "features", and bring said "features" in anyway.
Wanda Fayne
#738 - 2016-01-20 10:37:15 UTC
SoapyTits wrote:
Also - old players that doesnt like new players to have an edge SP-wise, go mine in high-sec. Gaming-skillz are needed to play a game.


Now wealth is needed to play the game.
Power to the wealthy.
Sad times ahead...

"your comments just confirms this whole idea is totally pathetic" -Lan Wang-

  • - "hub humping station gamey neutral logi warspam wankery" -Ralph King-Griffin-
Sarina Aideron
Aideron Corp
#739 - 2016-01-20 10:40:55 UTC
Is this an untimely April fools joke? I hope CCP is not serious with this.
Suede
State War Academy
Caldari State
#740 - 2016-01-20 10:50:32 UTC
Samus Arkain wrote:
I don't normally post on these forums. However, I will quit this game if it becomes as simple as a big wallet pays for skills. I have worked for years training a very specific skill plan, and the game will ruin such accomplishments overnight by this action. I have long tried to ignore the rumors that CCP no longer listens to its players and just does what it wants. However, in the most recent post they claim that a lot of players seem on board with this idea. A quick look through this set of comments show that is untrue. Clearly a great deal of players are upset with the idea, and you are more than likely about to make another decision that will significantly damage this game. Many players aren't even aware of what you're about to do, and when I notified them, they were very upset. Sadly, it's a decision that cannot be undone once made, as many characters will already be significantly altered only days after this action. So please, see it for what it is now, and do not ruin this excellent game.

TL:DR? Don't do it.

Sea.


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

Microtransactions and 'monocle-gate'


The development difficulties were only part of the Incarna problem. According to sources, CCP management had decided to introduce microtransactions, unbeknownst to most of the rank and file, charging real money for cosmetic items with which to customise character avatars. This is a familiar feature in online games, but usually a new outfit for a player character will cost $15-20. CCP decided to charge much more. The most notorious example was a monocle costing $70. The price tag infuriated fans kick-starting a major pricing controversy that would go on to become known as Monocle-gate.

The CEO had members of the fiction writing team put the apology together - he was either so out of touch, so arrogant, that he couldn’t find the words himself

Eventually CEO Hilmar Veigar Pétursson issued an apology to the players. But even this short appeasement wasn’t what it seemed; according to Blood, Petursson didn’t actually write it.

“He had members of our storyline team – a group responsible for writing in-game content and fiction – put it together,” he says. “He was either so out of touch, so arrogant, or perhaps both, that he couldn’t find the words to say himself. They bailed him out big time.”


can't believe for the passed weeks that none of the dev team at CCP have not even replyed to this dev blog what so ever,
would be nice to have a message or a post regarding this dev blog as we are your paying customers.

just looks kinda of bad to the paying player base that if ccp can not be bothered to reply to its loyal paying customers, who are paying a sub each month, without a paying customers would put ccp out of business