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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Luna Bowman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-01-18 16:06:46 UTC
Even as a newbie, i see a problem. The problem is called insta-alts. Be it gank, market, mining, anything. CCP, any stance on how this impacts the game ?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#42 - 2016-01-18 16:07:09 UTC
Well, at least I'll be able to get rid of those science skills I trained just so I could do R&D agents.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#43 - 2016-01-18 16:07:37 UTC
Sorgia wrote:
ppl who used exploits instandly maxedout.

Better report the exploiters, I hear you get a plex if it's true or something.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DmitryEKT
AMMO INC
#44 - 2016-01-18 16:07:59 UTC
Just too re-iterate what others have mentioned. Make it 512k instead of 500k, as skills are all multiples of 256, not 250k.
tasman devil
Puritans
#45 - 2016-01-18 16:08:15 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.

2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool.
In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game.

But if you're using AUR for the extractor... why not get plex and train more. Oh snap.

Besides... it's not surprising there may be a most efficient way to produce something. To min-max my dominix production I would research the BPO fully as well, right?

Otherwise I'm having a net negative on the dominix pool?


To clarify this:
main - fully researched all the ships you want to fly, I do not want to touch it
alt - free reign

I have ~5,500 AUR from the heydays when CCP gave them out left and right, I don't care it the extractor will be in AUR, at least I can burn that AUR off the account.

Plus: you need at least one plex to have the account open and accessible, why pay with more when you have already reached all the ships you wanted?

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#46 - 2016-01-18 16:08:41 UTC
Minchurra wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Minchurra wrote:
I like it. Some Qs:

How does this work in the case where I don't want to sell my XP on the market but I do want to re-arrange how I have it distributed?

For example on a toonie with 65 million SP, can I just move 5 million SP from my mining skills and dump them into my leadership skills, or do I need to use the injector/extractor and lose a percentage of my skill points?

Is 500k the maximum you can transfer in one go? Surely 512k would be a better amount given skills advance in powers of 2.

Are there plans for bigger/smaller injectors at different price points?

Can the injectors be bought for £££ like the extractors or are they in-game purchases only?

First victim to the new system detected. Read the dev blog again. If you do this, you will lose SP because your total amount extract is 500,000 but due to your 64.5M SP sum, you will only be able to re-implement 150,000 SP. Have fun wasting your money. Roll


You'd almost think I was asking because it sounded so useless that it couldn't possibly be what they were planning on doing.

Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
DmitryEKT
AMMO INC
#47 - 2016-01-18 16:08:45 UTC
Luna Bowman wrote:
Even as a newbie, i see a problem. The problem is called insta-alts. Be it gank, market, mining, anything. CCP, any stance on how this impacts the game ?

doesn't affect it in any way, because character bazaar already exists.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#48 - 2016-01-18 16:08:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
<

  A bold and desperate move to wring more cash from a diminishing playerbase..


>

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#49 - 2016-01-18 16:10:02 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
tasman devil wrote:
Basically means that I should have an ALT low SP (under 5m SP) character, who I deck out lets say with max Intelligence and Memory attributes, assign some Int/Mem skills to him and then periodically milk him for 500k SP that I can then sell on the market.

2: Any other route and you'll have a net negative on the SP pool.
In effect CCP is burning (removing) SP from the game.

But if you're using AUR for the extractor... why not get plex and train more. Oh snap.

Besides... it's not surprising there may be a most efficient way to produce something. To min-max my dominix production I would research the BPO fully as well, right?

Otherwise I'm having a net negative on the dominix pool?


To clarify this:
main - fully researched all the ships you want to fly, I do not want to touch it
alt - free reign

I have ~5,500 AUR from the heydays when CCP gave them out left and right, I don't care it the extractor will be in AUR, at least I can burn that AUR off the account.

Plus: you need at least one plex to have the account open and accessible, why pay with more when you have already reached all the ships you wanted?

Specialised alts are useful, huh? Actually for quite a number of applications a specialized alt (eg: producing more conventional goods) is quite a boon.

It's good that you're thinking ahead rather than thinking the SP you trained yourself is free.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc.
#50 - 2016-01-18 16:10:14 UTC
I am actually in favor of this so newer money making players can skill up to enjoy, however I think there should be a cap whereas you can't inject any more Sp if you are say 75-100mil or above in SP, I am concerned that a rich player could in effect undo the graft that players such as dr craymus have put in to their skill sheets.

Kyt Thrace
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2016-01-18 16:11:15 UTC
Escobar Sr wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OK, My question is simple.

After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.

I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.

Please answer this CCP.



Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0".

The question should be like:

"Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level 0 skills?"



Like 39 skills that say level 0.

I don't want the damn skill books back or be reimbursed for them.

This process is just plain stupid if you cannot remove the skillbook.

This is just another money grab for CCP because of all the lost subs due to poor decisions on CCP's part.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#52 - 2016-01-18 16:12:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Terminus
Misquote, ignore.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters
JonnyPew
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-01-18 16:13:39 UTC
WOOHOO! \o/

EVE Online video content creator

http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#54 - 2016-01-18 16:16:15 UTC
I can't really tell truly if its good or bad for the general health of the game, but there's one way I will use it that I have not seen discussed : to get back SP from a ALT I made and left to rust in a corner (not paid since one year at least), to be able to at least "get back" a part of the money I paid to play it for a moment, by extracting a maximum of its SP to the only character I use to play EVE. For this, these injectors and extractors are what I need.
But to attract new players I don't think it's really the problem, they need to know which fun or engaging things they can do in the game, not to be able to do them "efficiently" by the mean of using T2 and skills to level up their stats.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2016-01-18 16:18:29 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct.

Your idea (and CCP's) of how new players should be introduced to the game is troublesome - very troublesome.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#56 - 2016-01-18 16:23:16 UTC
Quote:
We weren’t sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that you’re also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters.


Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

Ignoring the massive hypocrisy over the years that skillpoints don't matter, there were/are many ways to push the game in a direction where not everything would be governed by a skill. But naturally, such a "solution" would mean CCP couldn't "double dip", so that was apparently uninteresting. What was interesting was pay to keep up.

This has nothing to do with new players. This is only about money. The core of Eve is now irrelevant and there is no value in anything.

This is an unbelievably dumb change and an absolute demonstration that players' opinions are completely ignored. CSM as a concept can't even be considered a joke. Who the **** would believe you listen anything at all after this?
Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#57 - 2016-01-18 16:27:40 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Your intuition that they weren't aiming for people to stack SP on their 80mil+ SP charcaters is correct.

Your idea (and CCP's) of how new players should be introduced to the game is troublesome - very troublesome.


Current:

Sorry Tommy, you can't play with us because you don't have X skill. Please wait [insert long wait time here] before you can come play with the big boys. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars buying PLEX to buy a character and give up your current character.

Future:

Hey Tommy, come play with us. Here's some SP to get you started. If you need more, you can get a jump start with a PLEX or two if you want to skip a couple weeks or a month of waiting.

Future Tommy seems to have better options...
ViolentDesire
78934223
#58 - 2016-01-18 16:28:05 UTC
YouAreMyBounty Sarn wrote:
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.

I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.


Apparently some devs live so deep in fantasy land and suffer from a confirmation bias stronger than what was thought possible.
tasman devil
Puritans
#59 - 2016-01-18 16:29:00 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Escobar Sr wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
OK, My question is simple.

After you remove the skill points to 0 in those skills you no longer want, can you remove the skill from your skillsheet.

I do not want a bunch of 0 level skills showing up. Why remove skill points if you can not remove the skill itself.

Please answer this CCP.



Honestly now, wouldn't it be awesome to delete the skill and reimburse the ISK you spent on the Skill Book itself? Honestly now, why is it such a big issue for you anyway? Couple skills that show "Level 0".

The question should be like:

"Will you implement a filter that allows my client to stop showing Level 0 skills?"



Like 39 skills that say level 0.

I don't want the damn skill books back or be reimbursed for them.

This process is just plain stupid if you cannot remove the skillbook.

This is just another money grab for CCP because of all the lost subs due to poor decisions on CCP's part.


Oh, you will be able to remove the skill books NEXT year - for a small AUR fee for "Skillbook extractor" because of "popular demand" they will implement it, although the way things are developed here (with the speed of a glacier melting) I'd wager it will be next year until we see something like that implemented.

Tune in on jan 2017 for more info!

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-01-18 16:29:05 UTC
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.