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Anti-Cloak that doesn't break the game
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Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2011-12-23 17:53:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucien Visteen
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
As someone with level 5 cloaking I dont want a fuel cost, a timer or a movement check. All are unnecessary changes that only serve to benefit those who want rock solid farming security.


Would only become boring, I'm not out to make the game boring.

Quote:
Or perhaps we can make a trade. Ill take the ability to be probed down if I can attack while cloaked. That way if I can absolutely be found, then you absolutely have to have the right equipment to find me. Deal?


Dependant on ship type, in both cases. And only for attacking, if you want to capture or well, web, then you need to uncloak. Discuss. (edit, doubt I will find many agreeing on me on this one)

This is actually what I thought having a cloak meant when I started playing. Covert attacking. I also thought they could only be used on cov-ops ships

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#162 - 2011-12-23 18:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
As someone with level 5 cloaking I dont want a fuel cost, a timer or a movement check. All are unnecessary changes that only serve to benefit those who want rock solid farming security.


Would only become boring, I'm not out to make the game boring.

Quote:
Or perhaps we can make a trade. Ill take the ability to be probed down if I can attack while cloaked. That way if I can absolutely be found, then you absolutely have to have the right equipment to find me. Deal?


Dependant on ship type, in both cases. And only for attacking, if you want to capture or well, web, then you need to uncloak. Discuss.

This is actually what I thought having a cloak meant. Covert attacking. I also thought they could only be used on cov-ops ships


Lol. I was being facetious. No probes & no hostile while cloaked.

The game isn't going to become more tame or easier to farm in safety. It lowers the demand for items because there is less loss incurred. The greater the loss, that typical gameplay can't recover, the greater the incentive to buy and resell plex for ISK. The greater number of plex sold the lower the ISK price goes which leads to more being purchased on the market. More being purchased raises the price back up. An equilibrium is found. Fights occur more often and tension is created. Compelling gameplay develops. More plex sold means more cash for the company.

Safer space means more isk is available to throw around but the need to do so is lessened. If you do not incur loss you do not need to replace ships. The market stagnates. Combat stagnates. More isk will drive the price of plex up temporarily but the dulling of the overall game will see demand for plex go down as fewer people subscribe. Sales of plex decrease as the price begins to bottom out. The company loses money.

Can breaking cloak and potentially creating impenetrable strongholds have this effect? In time, I would say absolutely.
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2011-12-23 18:39:20 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
As someone with level 5 cloaking I dont want a fuel cost, a timer or a movement check. All are unnecessary changes that only serve to benefit those who want rock solid farming security.


Would only become boring, I'm not out to make the game boring.

Quote:
Or perhaps we can make a trade. Ill take the ability to be probed down if I can attack while cloaked. That way if I can absolutely be found, then you absolutely have to have the right equipment to find me. Deal?


Dependant on ship type, in both cases. And only for attacking, if you want to capture or well, web, then you need to uncloak. Discuss.

This is actually what I thought having a cloak meant. Covert attacking. I also thought they could only be used on cov-ops ships


Lol. I was being facetious. No probes & no hostile while cloaked.

The game isn't going to become more tame or easier to farm in safety. It lowers the demand for items because there is less loss incurred. The greater the loss, that typical gameplay can't recover, the greater the incentive to buy and resell plex for ISK. The greater number of plex sold the lower the ISK price goes which leads to more being purchased on the market. More being purchased raises the price back up. An equilibrium is found. Fights occur more often and tension is created. Compelling gameplay develops. More plex sold means more cash for the company.

Safer space means more isk is available to throw around but the need to do so is lessened. If you do not incur loss you do not need to replace ships. The market stagnates. Combat stagnates. More isk will drive the price of plex up temporarily but the dulling of the overall game will see demand for plex go down as fewer people subscribe. Sales of plex decrease as the price begins to bottom out. The company loses money.

Can breaking cloak and potentially creating impenetrable strongholds have this effect? In time I would say absolutely.


And that is where I beg to differ since I don't see how it can break cloak, pluss it will make the "carebears" more courageous thus inviting to more pvp.

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#164 - 2011-12-23 18:44:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Lucien Visteen wrote:
[And that is where I beg to differ since I don't see how it can break cloak, pluss it will make the "carebears" more courageous thus inviting to more pvp.


There is no incentive you can offer to a person who tricks out a multi billion isk ship for missions who are risk averse to pvp. Absolutely nothing. It has to be forced upon them. And no one likes to be forced to do anything but unfortunately its required for the game to work.

Allowing cloakers to be probed out will mean the pvers stay docked up until the cloakers are probed out. Period. And at that point cloaking becomes completely useless and the strongholds of isk plantations begin to run risk free.
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2011-12-23 18:50:30 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Lucien Visteen wrote:
[And that is where I beg to differ since I don't see how it can break cloak, pluss it will make the "carebears" more courageous thus inviting to more pvp.


There is no incentive you can offer to a person who tricks out a multi billion isk ship for missions who is risk adverse to pvp. Absolutely nothing. It has to be forced upon them. And no one likes to be forced to do anything but unfortunately its required for the game to work.

Allowing cloakers to be probed out will mean the pvers stay docked up until the cloakers are probed out. Period. And at that point cloaking becomes completely useless and the strongholds of isk plantations begin to run risk free.


Then become mobile. You can without a cloak I've been told, with minimum effort, what makes it so infinately more difficult to stay mobile with a cloak module on?

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#166 - 2011-12-23 19:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Lucien Visteen wrote:
[And that is where I beg to differ since I don't see how it can break cloak, pluss it will make the "carebears" more courageous thus inviting to more pvp.


There is no incentive you can offer to a person who tricks out a multi billion isk ship for missions who is risk adverse to pvp. Absolutely nothing. It has to be forced upon them. And no one likes to be forced to do anything but unfortunately its required for the game to work.

Allowing cloakers to be probed out will mean the pvers stay docked up until the cloakers are probed out. Period. And at that point cloaking becomes completely useless and the strongholds of isk plantations begin to run risk free.


Then become mobile. You can without a cloak I've been told, with minimum effort, what makes it so infinately more difficult to stay mobile with a cloak module on?


Its not hard at all. I can grab a kitsune, warp to something in system, bookmark mid warp, then warp back 100km from said point. Repeating as necessary to create a deep safe spot. From there I sail off in one direction with an afterburner, uncloaked and never be found. Try and probe out a 39m ship (Kitsune might be smaller ICR) able to move 1km per second. It would serve the same purpose as afk cloaking. (Subversion of local)

So the breaking of cloaking wouldn't fix the issue that bothers PVEr's and merely serve as an unnecessary annoyance to those who chose to specialize in scouting. What if im stationary in a asteroid belt waiting for a hapless miner to come through. Extra movement means I spend more time navigating an asteroid belt instead of waiting to spring the trap.

We can go back and forth until the end of time, there is only one reason people want cloaking changed and that's so they can be 100% risk free in lo and nullsec. If they see someone in local they will then probe and see if the guy is in station, at a farm spot or in a safe spot. Depending on that they will alter what they do to avoid all risk.