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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The dilemma of attribute implants.

Author
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-11-15 13:11:41 UTC
I look at implants like this. Isk, ships and implants are replaceable. Time lost training with subpar implants is not.

So, yes I roll around with +5s. Just use 3 jump clones. One with int/mem, the other with per/wil implants and a 3rd one as a yolo I'm not coming back from this clone. Jump as needed between them.

If your going to lose your pod, you can rip them out to deny a juicy kill mail.

Plus if you have a quiet ratting system. Drop a ESS and farm LP plus get bonus isk. Makes replacing implants a lot cheaper or you can spend the LP on faction ammo as well. Win/Win.

If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.
Avvy
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-11-15 13:47:52 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:


If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.




Who said any thing about risk adverse? It's more about affordability.

A lot of you people giving advice more than likely have lots of isk so it would be different for you.


Some of you also just prejudge someone when you don't even know them. Then that just comes across as a trolling post even if there is some good advice contained within.

If you're going to prejudge someone you may as well give up giving advice.
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-11-15 14:15:16 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:


If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.


Who said any thing about risk adverse? It's more about affordability.

(Risk aversion is risk aversion no matter what you want to call it. I've already told you how to make use of +5s affordable.)

A lot of you people giving advice more than likely have lots of isk so it would be different for you.

(I've been using +5s for as long as I could after training up to Cybernetics 5. Has it been tight in the wallet sometimes? Yes. Was I willing to take the RISK? Yes. It didn't matter if I was a millionaire or a billionaire. I knew that I could make the ISK back but I could not make the time back on training SP. So I would WORK HARDER, to make things happen.)

Some of you also just prejudge someone when you don't even know them. Then that just comes across as a trolling post even if there is some good advice contained within.

If you're going to prejudge someone you may as well give up giving advice.
(How does one prejudge a person on the internet? From their name? We make judgement based of the quality and content of your post. Show us on the doll where the mean internet troll touched you. We're not your parents(well..probably) and we are not here to baby/hold your hand through every little thing. You present a issue and we have presented several solutions. The fact that YOU don't like them and feel the CCP should make this game even easier for you is in fact a PERSONAL PROBLEM.)

Avvy
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-11-15 14:20:13 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:


If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.


Who said any thing about risk adverse? It's more about affordability.

(Risk aversion is risk aversion no matter what you want to call it. I've already told you how to make use of +5s affordable.)

A lot of you people giving advice more than likely have lots of isk so it would be different for you.

(I've been using +5s for as long as I could after training up to Cybernetics 5. Has it been tight in the wallet sometimes? Yes. Was I willing to take the RISK? Yes. It didn't matter if I was a millionaire or a billionaire. I knew that I could make the ISK back but I could not make the time back on training SP. So I would WORK HARDER, to make things happen.)

Some of you also just prejudge someone when you don't even know them. Then that just comes across as a trolling post even if there is some good advice contained within.

If you're going to prejudge someone you may as well give up giving advice.
(How does one prejudge a person on the internet? From their name? We make judgement based of the quality and content of your post. Show us on the doll where the mean internet troll touched you. We're not your parents(well..probably) and we are not here to baby/hold your hand through every little thing. You present a issue and we have presented several solutions. The fact that YOU don't like them and feel the CCP should make this game even easier for you is in fact a PERSONAL PROBLEM.)



Although I answered the part of yours I quoted, I wasn't talking specifically about you, although your post would have come across better if you hadn't added that last line.
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#25 - 2015-11-15 14:37:08 UTC
You're talking about buying up potentially expensive implants but yet you won't go out for a few days in some cheap frigates and try a little PvP and now the excuse is that it's too expensive.

Yeah.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Avvy
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-11-15 14:39:05 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
You're talking about buying up potentially expensive implants but yet you won't go out for a few days in some cheap frigates and try a little PvP and now the excuse is that it's too expensive.

Yeah.



No, not saying that at all.

Anything else you want to guess at?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-11-15 14:40:30 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:

Even if he were playing WoW, decked out in the latest purple PvP gear that he got by paying someone to carry him through arenas for conquest points (that's how bad/lazy people get geared in that game these days), he'd still be in the same position that he is here: tons of the means to be able to PvP, but no practical knowledge to do it himself because he won't actually get out there and try it for himself.

OP: join a corp that will give you some support, and just do it already.

While I do totally get that and agree it to be the case I'm just pointing out that Eve is different in many ways for sure but specifically to this topic you can PvP and win in this game pretty much from the beginning if you know what you are doing but if you don't know what you are doing then you will not be of much use to anyone.

In WoW for sure, since I did used to play that game and can speak from experience about it, Even if you were the best arena champion of all time in that game, if someone were to give you a brand new account you could not participate with other players and be effective nor even stand a chance until you spent weeks or months grinding up to level cap and then more weeks or months grinding gear.

On the flip side of that if you are level capped in that game and do have gear even if you don't know what you are doing you can be helpful in Battlegrounds and such. In this game I could give you an all level 5 character and if you've been PvEing for years you will still be effectively useless in PvP in this game until you learn PvP.

My main point is that most other MMO are far more "gear" and "progression" focused. Eve is far more personal skill and experience focused. So while the excuse that I have to get max level and deced out first does apply in those other games it most certainly does not apply here. In Eve by far experience trumps almost everything else with the single exception being friends.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2015-11-15 14:51:17 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
I look at implants like this. Isk, ships and implants are replaceable. Time lost training with subpar implants is not.

While what you say here is completely true it is just not very valid. While it is true that you can not make up the time lost there is really no reason other than OCD stat paranoia inherited from other games. I am not saying that I am not guilty of it myself I'm just saying it has no basis in making sense to do so.

Further if you do focus on "stats" or "skills" in this game you are focusing your efforts and energy in the wrong direction and stunting your growth as a player. The people that tend to excel at PvP in this game are the ones that focus more on growing their personal knowledge of the game rather than their character's stats.
Amanda Chan wrote:

If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.

I doubt that I can find any true or more pertinent words in this thread than what you said here.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Gorthanator
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-11-15 15:06:20 UTC
in answer to the question the most practical thing you can do is as others have said is use a jump clone, no dilemma.


ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-11-15 15:14:26 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:


If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.




Who said any thing about risk adverse?

Amanda Chan did because that is precisely the perspective that you are putting forth here.
Avvy wrote:

It's more about affordability.

A lot of you people giving advice more than likely have lots of isk so it would be different for you.

It has nothing to do with affordability. It has been pointed out repeatedly that you can jump into a clone with no implants and get a free replacement upon being podded so cost it not a factor.

Eve has been intentionally designed as a game where you have to make choices and live with the consequences. Attempting to get around that core game design concept and not have to make the hard choices, wanting to eat your cake and have it too so to speak, is the definition of risk averse within the context of this game.

I personally feel that removing attribute implants from the game is a bit more of the softening of this game and what I like to call the "WoWification of Eve" where we are slowly being marched towards a game with less long term consequences and more instant gratification. To me it feels like they are slowly trying to turn this into a game with queueable PvP and something more similar to a respawn mechanic. But I digress and now return to the topic at hand.
Avvy wrote:

Some of you also just prejudge someone when you don't even know them. Then that just comes across as a trolling post even if there is some good advice contained within.

If you're going to prejudge someone you may as well give up giving advice.

No one prejudged anyone. I don't even understand where you got that. I think you need to look up the definition of the PREfix "pre". It means before. You made a post that expressed an extremely risk averse perspective and we judged it to be so after to fact.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2015-11-15 15:27:38 UTC
Avvy wrote:
although your post would have come across better if you hadn't added that last line.

Are you looking for true answers with real useable information? Or would you rather have someone hold your hand and tell you that everything will be ok?

If you want someone to coddle you then may I suggest that you go back to your mother and see if you can't acquire sustenance from her mammary glands.

If you want to PvP in Eve then I suggest that you HTFU.

Keep in mind I'm not saying this as some hardcore PvPer. I'm saying this as possibly the biggest carebear in all of Eve.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#32 - 2015-11-15 15:34:51 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

My main point is that most other MMO are far more "gear" and "progression" focused. Eve is far more personal skill and experience focused. So while the excuse that I have to get max level and deced out first does apply in those other games it most certainly does not apply here. In Eve by far experience trumps almost everything else with the single exception being friends.



Yes, I was really agreeing with you and trying to add to your remarks, but it didn't come across, I guess. Blink

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

Avvy
Doomheim
#33 - 2015-11-15 16:07:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
This thread can be closed as there's nothing of any worth being added.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-11-15 17:17:27 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:


If you want to be risk adverse then be risk adverse but don't blame CCP for a personal problem.




Who said any thing about risk adverse? It's more about affordability.

A lot of you people giving advice more than likely have lots of isk so it would be different for you.


Some of you also just prejudge someone when you don't even know them. Then that just comes across as a trolling post even if there is some good advice contained within.

If you're going to prejudge someone you may as well give up giving advice.

At best, I'm an average PvPer. I lose regularly, making mistakes that get me killed in dumb ways. I have at present 1.4 bil liquid ISK, and that's only because I went ahead made a bit of isk a few weeks ago, before I was at less than a bil total.That's a little bit more than what you apparently have. Again, pew pew, or don't, but stop making excuses, this has gone on since you've appeared on these forums and it's gotten ridiculous. There is no more advice to give, it's up to you now.

Avvy wrote:
This thread can be closed as there's nothing of any worth being added.

"I'm not hearing what I want to hear so please close it."

Grrr.

Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#35 - 2015-11-15 17:48:43 UTC
Avvy wrote:
I get the feeling there are a few on the forums that are also tired of the subject.

We are tired of you.

Get back to us once you've actually played the game. Until then no one really cares about your opinion.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Avvy
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-11-15 18:59:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Cara Forelli wrote:
Avvy wrote:
I get the feeling there are a few on the forums that are also tired of the subject.

We are tired of you.

Get back to us once you've actually played the game. Until then no one really cares about your opinion.



Well I wouldn't worry too much.


I've got to about the 2nd week in Feb to decide if I'm staying or not.

If I'm in the game and enjoying it, you more than likely won't even see me on the forums.

Nearly all the MMO's I've played. I haven't used the forums.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2015-11-15 19:51:16 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:

My main point is that most other MMO are far more "gear" and "progression" focused. Eve is far more personal skill and experience focused. So while the excuse that I have to get max level and deced out first does apply in those other games it most certainly does not apply here. In Eve by far experience trumps almost everything else with the single exception being friends.



Yes, I was really agreeing with you and trying to add to your remarks, but it didn't come across, I guess. Blink

No it did. I quoted the OP not you.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-11-16 02:47:00 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Avvy wrote:
As GW2 becomes more of a casual game to me due to its expansion's very repetitive nature, my attention turns more to this game.

So I'm considering the move to null, but the more I consider it the less appealing it gets.

Presently I'm using +4 attribute implants, if I move to null I wouldn't be using any due to their likely demise. Which is a big drop in training. At a time when training is still important.

If I was a PvE player of course I wouldn't have this dilemma as my rate of training wouldn't change.

So I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in high-sec because of the attribute implants.


Which has me wondering how many people stay in high-sec because of the attribute system.

If you were a PvP player, you'd be out PvPing.

If you feel like a prisoner in High sec, leave High sec. Your implants aren't stopping you.

You don't NEED +4 implants. The only reason you 'need' them is because you've convinced yourself there's no point playing or learning to PvP until you have some arbitrary number of SP. Either go and do it or don't. This is the 841206870869065648 thread like this you've made asking for assurances, or asking if you're ready. Yes. You were ready yesterday. We've told you this all a hundred times.

Now stop trolling and make a decision.


Can't fly what you haven't trained....
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-11-16 05:19:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Leonardo Adami wrote:


Can't fly what you haven't trained....


Whilst technically true, if your that desperate to fly stuff that you do not have the skills for just jump on SISI or better still just buy yourself a character on the bazaar with the skills you want. But in reality most people will qualify for stuff well before they have the player knowledge and insight to use it effectively (but human nature says they will will be convinced otherwise).

Obsession with the SP training mini-game is one of the biggest limiting factors on newer players in EVE and presumably a good part of the reason CCP are thinking of dumping training implants altogether.
voetius
Grundrisse
#40 - 2015-11-16 09:13:44 UTC

I wouldn't worry too much about the cost. If you plug in a +4 in the primary attribute and a +3 in the secondary you get most of the benefit. I've lived in null for a year or so on and off during my time here and I always had them it. That will cost you 30 mill or so. My clones were costing me 20 mill then it went up to 45m (I think, just before they removed them), so 30mill isn't that big a deal when you can make that in less than an hour ratting or running anoms etc.

As someone said above, I used to roll around in low sec with +5s in, the main thing to watch out for is smartbombers, but knowing the area and people and having plenty of bookmarks can mitigate most of the risk.

Or just use jump clones as someone said above and have a couple of different ones for what you are training and have a few spare empty ones for suicide ops.

It's not something that anyone can give a firm rule on IMO, it comes down to individual assessment of risk and reward.