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The dilemma of attribute implants.

Author
Avvy
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-11-15 02:05:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
As GW2 becomes more of a casual game to me due to its expansion's very repetitive nature, my attention turns more to this game.

So I'm considering the move to null, but the more I consider it the less appealing it gets.

Presently I'm using +4 attribute implants, if I move to null I wouldn't be using any due to their likely demise. Which is a big drop in training. At a time when training is still important.

If I was a PvE player of course I wouldn't have this dilemma as my rate of training wouldn't change.

So I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in high-sec because of the attribute implants.


Which has me wondering how many people stay in high-sec because of the attribute system.
Bobb Bobbington
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-11-15 02:11:57 UTC
Well, since we're all min-maxers here, what gives the most fun/hour? 100k SP or some pew-pew?

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Shitposting Forum Alt
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-11-15 02:35:59 UTC
One day you will ask yourself, "sooooo what do I train next...", and on that day, you will give no fuks how much SP you may or may not have lost previously.

go have some fun.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-11-15 02:45:43 UTC
Avvy wrote:
As GW2 becomes more of a casual game to me due to its expansion's very repetitive nature, my attention turns more to this game.

So I'm considering the move to null, but the more I consider it the less appealing it gets.

Presently I'm using +4 attribute implants, if I move to null I wouldn't be using any due to their likely demise. Which is a big drop in training. At a time when training is still important.

If I was a PvE player of course I wouldn't have this dilemma as my rate of training wouldn't change.

So I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in high-sec because of the attribute implants.


Which has me wondering how many people stay in high-sec because of the attribute system.

If you were a PvP player, you'd be out PvPing.

If you feel like a prisoner in High sec, leave High sec. Your implants aren't stopping you.

You don't NEED +4 implants. The only reason you 'need' them is because you've convinced yourself there's no point playing or learning to PvP until you have some arbitrary number of SP. Either go and do it or don't. This is the 841206870869065648 thread like this you've made asking for assurances, or asking if you're ready. Yes. You were ready yesterday. We've told you this all a hundred times.

Now stop trolling and make a decision.

Grrr.

Avvy
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-11-15 03:01:00 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Avvy wrote:
As GW2 becomes more of a casual game to me due to its expansion's very repetitive nature, my attention turns more to this game.

So I'm considering the move to null, but the more I consider it the less appealing it gets.

Presently I'm using +4 attribute implants, if I move to null I wouldn't be using any due to their likely demise. Which is a big drop in training. At a time when training is still important.

If I was a PvE player of course I wouldn't have this dilemma as my rate of training wouldn't change.

So I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in high-sec because of the attribute implants.


Which has me wondering how many people stay in high-sec because of the attribute system.

If you were a PvP player, you'd be out PvPing.

If you feel like a prisoner in High sec, leave High sec. Your implants aren't stopping you.

You don't NEED +4 implants. The only reason you 'need' them is because you've convinced yourself there's no point playing or learning to PvP until you have some arbitrary number of SP. Either go and do it or don't. This is the 841206870869065648 thread like this you've made asking for assurances, or asking if you're ready. Yes. You were ready yesterday. We've told you this all a hundred times.

Now stop trolling and make a decision.



Your maths is a bit out, I can only think of 3, 1 of those was a warning about the skill queue not working, another about the skills that I had trained and a question about the test server and this one.

You're the one that is trolling.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-11-15 03:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Avvy wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
If you were a PvP player, you'd be out PvPing.

If you feel like a prisoner in High sec, leave High sec. Your implants aren't stopping you.

You don't NEED +4 implants. The only reason you 'need' them is because you've convinced yourself there's no point playing or learning to PvP until you have some arbitrary number of SP. Either go and do it or don't. This is the 841206870869065648 thread like this you've made asking for assurances, or asking if you're ready. Yes. You were ready yesterday. We've told you this all a hundred times.

Now stop trolling and make a decision.

Your maths is a bit out, I can only think of 3, 1 of those was a warning about the skill queue not working, another about the skills that I had trained and a question about the test server and this one.

You're the one that is trolling.

Calm down.

Having implants and not having implants makes a difference of about a month's worth of training after a year.

True... it adds up over time... but if you are having fun doing stuff then the time flies by.
Moreover, if you have chosen a specialty, focused yourself towards it, and now have those abilities... having more skillpoints is only diversifying what you can do. It will not decide how well you can survive in any area of space (that comes only through experience).

Don't focus so much on SP per hour... it is not an end in of itself and you don't need "perfect skills" to do anything. They help... but waiting for them to be perfect is a waste of time.

Just hop into a "naked clone" and go out there. If you don't like it, you can always jump back and continue as is. You will have only "lost" a few hours, to a few days out of a year's worth of maxed out training.
(seriously... are you going to deny yourself doing something you want to try over 5 to 10 days out of 365.25 days worth of maxed out training?)
Avvy
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-11-15 03:42:24 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
If you were a PvP player, you'd be out PvPing.

If you feel like a prisoner in High sec, leave High sec. Your implants aren't stopping you.

You don't NEED +4 implants. The only reason you 'need' them is because you've convinced yourself there's no point playing or learning to PvP until you have some arbitrary number of SP. Either go and do it or don't. This is the 841206870869065648 thread like this you've made asking for assurances, or asking if you're ready. Yes. You were ready yesterday. We've told you this all a hundred times.

Now stop trolling and make a decision.

Your maths is a bit out, I can only think of 3, 1 of those was a warning about the skill queue not working, another about the skills that I had trained and a question about the test server and this one.

You're the one that is trolling.

Calm down.

Having implants and not having implants makes a difference of about a month's worth of training after a year.

True... it adds up over time... but if you are having fun doing stuff then the time flies by.
Moreover, if you have chosen a specialty, focused yourself towards it, and now have those abilities... having more skillpoints is only diversifying what you can do. It will not decide how well you can survive in any area of space (that comes only through experience).

Don't focus so much on SP per hour... it is not an end in of itself and you don't need "perfect skills" to do anything. They help... but waiting for them to be perfect is a waste of time.

Just hop into a "naked clone" and go out there. If you don't like it, you can always jump back and continue as is. You will have only "lost" a few hours, to a few days out of a year's worth of maxed out training.
(seriously... are you going to deny yourself doing something you want to try over 5 to 10 days out of 365.25 days worth of maxed out training?)



I'm still calm believe it or not.

In this thread I'm not looking for assurances that was the other thread and those questions were answered.

This thread is more about what I'm finding.

Part of the problem is I still don't understand how players have accepted the fact that PvE players in high-sec can train more quickly than PvP players.

Maybe another issue is that I'm used to levelling characters fairly quickly and here that comes down to the skill queue and implants as there's no other way to progress a character.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#8 - 2015-11-15 03:56:02 UTC
Jump clone into a clone with +3 implants for the skill you are training right now (+2s if losing +3s would hurt you economically), then risking your pod is a non-issue.

2 +3 implants is 20m ISK.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2015-11-15 03:56:13 UTC
Avvy wrote:
I'm still calm believe it or not.

In this thread I'm not looking for assurances that was the other thread and those questions were answered.

This thread is more about what I'm finding.

Part of the problem is I still don't understand how players have accepted the fact that PvE players in high-sec can train more quickly than PvP players.

Maybe another issue is that I'm used to levelling characters fairly quickly and here that comes down to the skill queue and implants as there's no other way to progress a character.

Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah.

In EVE, forget everything you have learned in other MMOs. It won't help you here. Having "good" skills is only part of the equation to be being "good." You also need experience.

And here is something you are probably missing; if you have a lot of skillpoints you WILL be held to a higher standard by other players. So much so in fact that you will probably be denied entry into a lot of different groups just because they expect you to have a fair bit more experience and a better attitude towards risk and dying.

This is why many of us push newbies to go out and die in a fire right off the bat. It teaches them to accept that losses are a part of the game and how to survive better with less... which helps as you get more involved with the game and your skills improve.
There have been many times where I have been stranded in a hostile area and the only things available to me are Tech 1 ships and meta equipment.

As for the implants... they are luxury items. Nothing more.
Don't see this luxury as a NEED. Go out and just do stuff.

(and frankly, I am so tired of this debate about attribute implants that I am just HOPING that the DEVs simply remove implants altogether and not replace it with anything... just to give a proper "up yours" to people who think "lots of skillpoints = necessary"... but this isn't going to happen because LP stores are apparently a HUGE isk-sink in the game).
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2015-11-15 03:59:01 UTC
plug in a primary and secondary implant and jump clone depending on what you need. and if you plan on going on a probable suicide op switch to a clean clone or +1s or what you feel comfortable in.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Avvy
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-11-15 04:05:12 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:


And here is something you are probably missing; if you have a lot of skillpoints you WILL be held to a higher standard by other players. So much so in fact that you will probably be denied entry into a lot of different groups just because they expect you to have a fair bit more experience and a better attitude towards risk and dying.


I hadn't even considered that.


ShahFluffers wrote:

As for the implants... they are luxury items. Nothing more.
Don't see this luxury as a NEED. Go out and just do stuff.

(and frankly, I am so tired of this debate about attribute implants that I am just HOPING that the DEVs simply remove implants altogether and not replace it with anything... just to give a proper "up yours" to people who think "lots of skillpoints = necessary"... but this isn't going to happen because LP stores are apparently a HUGE isk-sink in the game).


I get the feeling there are a few on the forums that are also tired of the subject.


But thanks for your replys
Avvy
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-11-15 04:27:12 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
plug in a primary and secondary implant and jump clone depending on what you need. and if you plan on going on a probable suicide op switch to a clean clone or +1s or what you feel comfortable in.



Thanks good idea of yours and Sabriz's.


I have 4 jump clones, all empty at the moment.


I've over 1 billion to play with, but at some point I'll need to be making more than I'm losing or I'm likely to grind to a halt. This is a bit of an unknown at the moment of how I'll be able to make that happen. Hence the reluctance to spend on implants that would likely be destroyed especially as I don't know what the cost of ships and equipment will be in null.
Memphis Baas
#13 - 2015-11-15 04:32:41 UTC
You can sit in high sec and train "faster" (if you look at your attributes, as assigned, and figure with/without implants, it's about 10-15%) and do nothing and get bored of the game in about a month, at which point you'll consider dropping the subscription because what's the point...

or

You can go to null and have fun for a year, train slightly slower, but gain a ton of actual PVP experience that will trump the 10% extra skills that the guy in high-sec has, every single fight.

The combat in this game isn't "computer compares trained skill levels to see who wins", you have to actually know WTF you're doing in PVP. So, go to null, PVP your heart out, learn, have fun, and enjoy the game. This is the point of the game, not accumulating skillpoints.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#14 - 2015-11-15 04:57:54 UTC
where do you get this idea that no-one in 0.0 space uses implants?

my main generally gets around with +4s, when i'm not in snakes. both my alts are in +4s.

i only plug in the implants i 'need' for my current queue and leave the rest bare, so those pods only run ~40m ISK a throw.

i lost my HG Snake pod (all 2.5b worth of it) to a lowsec smartbomber. it's actually been a good long while since I got podded in 0.0 now I think on it. (these days, i run mid grades Cry )

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-11-15 06:49:44 UTC
Avvy wrote:

Your maths is a bit out, I can only think of 3

Some of us have been helping new players in this section of the forums for a bit longer than the past week. I totally agree with Asda Ja.

We do wind up answering a lot of the same questions over and over again. But I guess that kind of goes with helping new players.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-11-15 06:56:23 UTC
Avvy wrote:

Maybe another issue is that I'm used to levelling characters fairly quickly and here that comes down to the skill queue and implants as there's no other way to progress a character.

This is not part of your problem it is your entire problem. You are playing Eve as if it were one of the many various MMOs out there with level caps and hyper balanced gameplay where you can't do **** until you are level capped and decked out in purples.

This is not those games. You either need to get over those other games and start playing this one or leave this one and go back to all of those other MMOs. But I for one am sick of hearing you whine about how this game is not Guild Wars or WoW or Final Fantasy or what ever.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-11-15 09:18:35 UTC
CCP has already acknowledged that attributes and (pure) learning imps are bad for the game ... now they need to find a way to eliminate them without to much fallout to the economy. They will eventually go ...

... that said, what I'm doing is switching between my learning clone and the PvP clones at session start/end. Since I play only workday evenings or on weekends, with also often not being able to play for days or weeks, this is a good compromise.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#18 - 2015-11-15 10:01:57 UTC
Incidently, after destroying another player's +5 capsule, it is considered good sportsmanship to contract them a set of +1's to help them get back on their feet.

It's the kind of gesture that says "Don't feel bad, we're all in this together."
Be sure to practice socially responsible pvp.

Fly safe,
The Bull
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2015-11-15 12:01:14 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
Incidently, after destroying another player's +5 capsule, it is considered good sportsmanship to contract them a set of +1's to help them get back on their feet.

It's the kind of gesture that says "Don't feel bad, we're all in this together."
Be sure to practice socially responsible pvp.

Fly safe,
The Bull


The harvest of tears from that is just exquisite.

I've been wardecced four times by people after doing that post-suicide-gank.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Trudeaux Margaret
Fancypants Inc
#20 - 2015-11-15 13:06:57 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Avvy wrote:

Maybe another issue is that I'm used to levelling characters fairly quickly and here that comes down to the skill queue and implants as there's no other way to progress a character.

This is not part of your problem it is your entire problem. You are playing Eve as if it were one of the many various MMOs out there with level caps and hyper balanced gameplay where you can't do **** until you are level capped and decked out in purples.

This is not those games. You either need to get over those other games and start playing this one or leave this one and go back to all of those other MMOs. But I for one am sick of hearing you whine about how this game is not Guild Wars or WoW or Final Fantasy or what ever.



Even if he were playing WoW, decked out in the latest purple PvP gear that he got by paying someone to carry him through arenas for conquest points (that's how bad/lazy people get geared in that game these days), he'd still be in the same position that he is here: tons of the means to be able to PvP, but no practical knowledge to do it himself because he won't actually get out there and try it for himself.

OP: join a corp that will give you some support, and just do it already.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl

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