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[December] Navy EWar Frigates

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ColdBeauty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2015-10-19 16:53:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking.

Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever.
Lost touch
Make-EVE-Great-Again
NO NEED LOOSE FACE
#202 - 2015-10-19 17:48:48 UTC
+1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)

Coz it needed that rite?

Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#203 - 2015-10-19 18:57:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
M.N.I.!!!

Hello new fleet tackler!

Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those?

Oh, and Navy EWAR firgs were all they could come up with? Hello! Navy Destroyers!!
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#204 - 2015-10-19 19:39:16 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
M.N.I.!!!

Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those?


There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#205 - 2015-10-19 20:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Soldarius wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
M.N.I.!!!

Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those?


There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier.

To clarify for others: Missile disruptors will use Target Disruption skills and bonuses so that is why the Crucifier Navy Issue fills the role with its Weapon Disruption bonus.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#206 - 2015-10-19 20:38:00 UTC
Terra Chrall wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
M.N.I.!!!

Considering they are coming out with new Missile Disrupters mods, why didn't they make at least one of these ship bonused to those?


There is this thing called the Imperial Navy Crucifier.

To clarify for others: Missile disruptors will use Target Disruption skills and bonuses so that is why the Crucifier Navy Issue fills the role with its Weapon Disruption bonus.


Really? Totally missed that.

ColdBeauty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2015-10-19 23:35:37 UTC
Lost touch wrote:
+1 scramble strength to all Warp Scramblers (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)

Coz it needed that rite?



There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#208 - 2015-10-19 23:35:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Reading this feedback on the navy griffin makes me sad, why cant people read stats at all?

Just to compare,

Slot layout: 3 H, 5 M, 2 L, 2 Turret, 1 Launcher
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 40 PWG, 200 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 650 / 400 / 400
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 425 / 212.5s / 2
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 325 / 3.45 / 1,056,000 / 5 / 5.05s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 600 / 5
Sensor strength: 17 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 40


Thats more shield, armor and equal hull then a kestrel, its just a tiny bit less tanky then a hookbill (which as we all know, is a very tanky ship), it also has more fitting then a hookbill (by a bit).


(all fits are guesses, migth not fit, might not be the best, time will tell)

So

[Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

150mm Railgun II
150mm Railgun II
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender II

Hobgoblin II

Can most likely swap a web for a jammer or sort, making this a total pita to fight if needed.


This will have around 6.3-6.8k ish ehp, 182dps at 6km, which isnt that bad. But its bonus is oriented towards in your face brawling

So


[Griffin navy issue, New Setup 1]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Internal Force Field Array I

1MN Afterburner II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II
Light Neutron Blaster II
Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rocket

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II


Again, second web can be any ewar mod, although i dont like ecm.

308 dps, 6.5k ish ehp + double web is a good navy ffrigate, it isnt op but it isnt bad either.



And if you really cared to, 10k ehpish dual mse fits that still do over 200dps are also possible.


First of all the hookbill is not especially tanky, it's actually got the least EHP out of the existing navy frigates and has the least fitting resources to fit a tank. Most of it's fits rely on dual webs to keep it at the edge of scram range where it still gets totally owned by the rail comet, and soon the Navy Vigil will be better than it in every way as well. It's also slowest and has the biggest sig radius and lowest dps so there's that too, no surprise to me it's the least used of all the Navy frigates but I'm sure you'll try to tell me it's fabulous anyway.

As for the Navy Griffin if those fits work they are better than what i imagined but your DCU costs 9mil, it's a sitting duck for kiters, and it's nowhere near the same level of power as the Fleet Vigil or the Navy Maulus. The Navy Griffin and the Crucifier Navy Issue are both way behind the other two, and that's the whole point.

Fleet Vigil

Ballistic Control System II
Damage Control II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
5MN Microwarpdrive II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Medium Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 50

Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Nova Fury Light Missile
[Empty High slot]

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

3800m/s cold
almost uncatchable because of the 20km overheated defensive web.
100dps with light missiles, 38km range, and application bonus. + another 60dps from drones
still has a strong tank to deal with most things that might be able to hit it at kite range

that's before links or faction mods, and it's already cancerous
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#209 - 2015-10-19 23:44:13 UTC
hookbill would be better if it had more fitting and if there were more appealling options for multiple slot shield tanks on frigs. it has no fitting even with 1 extender/masb, I can't somehow come up with the fitting for a second one, so that means it's always going to be doing 2 web, even though that's what you usually want to do so you can abuse rage rockets against ab frigs.
Teddy KGB
Red Warming
3200.
#210 - 2015-10-20 00:03:02 UTC
OMG there is so much EW ships in this game already. Why don't you guys realy give us T2 Logi frigates with tinny signature radius. Why u make another EW frigates when we have Electronic Attack Ships??
Marcuis
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#211 - 2015-10-20 03:45:36 UTC
They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while....

[URL=http://s284.photobucket.com/user/Zuminor/media/marcsigcopy-13.gif.html][IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll34/Zuminor/marcsigcopy-13.gif[/IMG][/URL]
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#212 - 2015-10-20 06:55:09 UTC
ColdBeauty wrote:
There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended.

Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#213 - 2015-10-20 07:15:32 UTC
Marcuis wrote:
They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while....


The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken.

Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#214 - 2015-10-20 11:14:24 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Marcuis wrote:
They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while....


The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken.

Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out.


except garmurs do 50% more missile dps
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#215 - 2015-10-20 11:30:57 UTC
ColdBeauty wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking.

Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever.



The -85% is why I thought of the ecm as a get out of jail free card. You don't use them unless someone scrams you. 2 multi ecm shield disruptor an mwd in mids. If you are fighting another kiter you may want to move in close and get some jams to win the dps versus tank battle.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ColdBeauty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#216 - 2015-10-20 11:36:53 UTC
Cearain wrote:
ColdBeauty wrote:
Cearain wrote:
I see the griffin as a risk free kite ship. If it gets caught by a brawler it can just get a jam on it and hit the mwd for rail tracking.

Nah, not with the ECM -85% optimal, it will be a brawler with ECM strength bonus and enough mids to have 2 webs or TD or a multispec or whatever.



The -85% is why I thought of the ecm as a get out of jail free card. You don't use them unless someone scrams you. 2 multi ecm shield disruptor an mwd in mids. If you are fighting another kiter you may want to move in close and get some jams to win the dps versus tank battle.



Hmm see what you mean, don't see many using it like that tho as it would probably get 2/3 shotted if the jam doesn't land, reckon scram range brawler fits with 2webz and/or TD/ECM. The ECM would be more effective with a bit of tank to back it up if it doesn't land.

I do get that you are seeing it as "last resort" though.
ColdBeauty
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2015-10-20 11:39:34 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
ColdBeauty wrote:
There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended.

Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships.


I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ? Big smile
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#218 - 2015-10-20 12:09:28 UTC
ColdBeauty wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
ColdBeauty wrote:
There can be no reason other than to deal with WCS. What this represents is a tacit admission that WCS in FW plexes are working as intended.

Now that DSTs are a thing, it may be related more than just to stabbed FW ships.


I have flu and I'm missing the acronym, could you spell it out a bit for a sick simpleton please ? Big smile


Deep Space Transports. They have a native +2 warp core strength.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#219 - 2015-10-20 12:17:59 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:



Again, second web can be any ewar mod, although i dont like ecm.

308 dps, 6.5k ish ehp + double web is a good navy ffrigate, it isnt op but it isnt bad either.



And if you really cared to, 10k ehpish dual mse fits that still do over 200dps are also possible.



[Federation Navy Comet, Federation Navy Comet fit]

Damage Control II
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Diminishing Power System Drain I

Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I
Small Transverse Bulkhead I


Hobgoblin II x3
Hobgoblin II x3


350dps
6.7k ehp + 2.4k ehp from aar + another 20ehp/s when paste runs out
1276m/s cold 1679m/s with heat

How does a Navy Griffin compete with that? The rail comet is even better.




[Merlin, Merlin fit]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I

Medium Shield Extender II
1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Warp Scrambler II

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

270dps
6.23k ehp

The ship+fit costs less than your dcu


The Navy Griffin is fail, Navy Crucifier looks even worse, Navy Maulus is excellent bordering OP, Fleet Vigil is cancerous OP. There's no justification for penalizing the EWAR on the first two and giving the other two faster hulls with long range weapons and range bonuses on their EWAR. It's so stupid that ecm and td's works better on non bonused hulls than it is on these so called ewar firgates.

Remove the range penalty on the Navy griffin and you can fit one ECM module in place of the second web, you have a good ship that can brawl nicely with the chance of getting a jam in somewhere during a fight, but the biggest benefit of having the ecm on a brawling ship is to have a chance of escaping from kite scum.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#220 - 2015-10-20 12:19:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Fourteen Maken
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Marcuis wrote:
They look great but i can yell that the MNI Vigil is way to powerful.conpare to the others in mnay ways its a joke really a frig 400 ms base with web n missile dps like farmur or crow.. need do i say morethe NVI mauls dps is far to much with those drones n guns thats far to much dps.. i gather they wanted brawler fights with these... the cruicfer n griffin are fine..keep in mind they are frigs and suppose to be upclose.. woild suggest boost the ewar strength for griffin n cryicfer to make them worth while....


The Vigil is a poor mans garmur, horribly broken.

Imagine what low sec would look like if Garmurs cost 10mil isk... well we're about to find out.


except garmurs do 50% more missile dps


So it will take them a little bit longer to kill their utterly helpless prey Roll

EDIT: also Vigil has 15m3 of drones