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[December] Balance Smorgasbord

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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#641 - 2015-12-03 12:20:57 UTC
Patrick Nolen wrote:
U know what ccp doing the best? it loosing players XD. more nerfs, and only ccp team will play eve :D ppl fly ships beacsue that ships are cool. gila is good ratting ship. when u do it there will be no next step ship after vni to ratting. vni->gila->rattle-> ishtar. this ship is too expensive for pvp why u nerf it? i dont get it. it have big bullseye on the back and everyone want to kill it... bad idea to nerf it but do what u want its your game.


Too expensive for PvP? Heh. It costs half the price of a T2 fit T3 and is the most powerful cruiser sized small gang brawler in the game. 600 perfectly applied DPS with augmented (dirt cheap) hammerheads. 110k EHP tank with links, heat and full shield tank (let someone else do the tackling your job is to break ****.) Vastly quicker than any other drone boat especially with the shield ishtar now non-viable. Ship is nuts. It's the overall best pirate cruiser in the game and will remain so after losing ~40 DPS or some speed.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2015-12-03 12:26:27 UTC
And it's links that makes these hulls overpowered. The ships themselves are fine, it's the application of massive booster buffs to ships already engineered towards range and speed that is game breaking.

Baseline Garmur/Orthrus is strong but not overpowered. HG Snakes make them a bit broken but that's a nearly 3B ISK pod. Links + even mid grades makes the ships absolutely insane. It's not the ships that are broken.
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#643 - 2015-12-03 14:59:46 UTC
The removal of off grid links couldn't come sooner.

Would solve so many an imbalance, would stealth nerf incursions, would accomplish a lot in one fell swoop.

Simply a mechanic that should never of been a thing in the first place.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#644 - 2015-12-04 01:14:24 UTC
I think there needs to be a greater realization that it's not the ships that are problematic, rather it's what they become when combined with links. A linked brawler can still be brought down. A ship like the Orthrus designed to be fast and hard hitting at range becomes oppressive when links make it impossible to catch by anything that doesn't die to a couple of RLML volleys.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#645 - 2015-12-04 15:06:24 UTC
epic fail keeping the punisher changes, didnt it used too have cap use bonus and it was changed too damage? or was that just the maller, either way i bet punishers will be more blaster or auto fit than lasers now.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#646 - 2015-12-04 17:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Divinity
no point anymore to play this game nomore as a solo player i tried to keep up with all ur stupid changes and adapt but im reachin a point that im thinkin **** this n time to move on ill spend my good money elsewhere it will be tough to leave my friends behind but im done with the **** ccp is constantly bringin into this game matter a fact i should get my money back cos i dint pay for bullshit changes
but hey good job ccp in losing players superawesome job keep it up
everything dies somtime and this game is reachin its end ur changes just make it die faster
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#647 - 2015-12-04 18:40:45 UTC
Good changes all around, especially for the punisher.
Ephigy
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#648 - 2015-12-05 02:37:26 UTC
RIP Heela.

We had some fun together.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#649 - 2015-12-05 03:56:35 UTC
Patrick Nolen wrote:
U know what ccp doing the best? it loosing players XD. more nerfs, and only ccp team will play eve :D ppl fly ships beacsue that ships are cool. gila is good ratting ship. when u do it there will be no next step ship after vni to ratting. vni->gila->rattle-> ishtar. this ship is too expensive for pvp why u nerf it? i dont get it. it have big bullseye on the back and everyone want to kill it... bad idea to nerf it but do what u want its your game.


Don't worry, the price of the Gilas are gonna drop down to 150 mill after the nerf kicks in.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#650 - 2015-12-05 04:31:07 UTC
Lara Divinity wrote:
no point anymore to play this game nomore as a solo player i tried to keep up with all ur stupid changes and adapt but im reachin a point that im thinkin **** this n time to move on ill spend my good money elsewhere it will be tough to leave my friends behind but im done with the **** ccp is constantly bringin into this game matter a fact i should get my money back cos i dint pay for bullshit changes
but hey good job ccp in losing players superawesome job keep it up
everything dies somtime and this game is reachin its end ur changes just make it die faster

Can I have your stuff?
Bruce T Wolf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#651 - 2015-12-05 16:23:30 UTC
Well after having invested a massive amount of time training skills around the Gila I am pissed about the nerf.
Ephigy
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#652 - 2015-12-05 16:30:13 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Patrick Nolen wrote:
U know what ccp doing the best? it loosing players XD. more nerfs, and only ccp team will play eve :D ppl fly ships beacsue that ships are cool. gila is good ratting ship. when u do it there will be no next step ship after vni to ratting. vni->gila->rattle-> ishtar. this ship is too expensive for pvp why u nerf it? i dont get it. it have big bullseye on the back and everyone want to kill it... bad idea to nerf it but do what u want its your game.


Too expensive for PvP? Heh. It costs half the price of a T2 fit T3 and is the most powerful cruiser sized small gang brawler in the game. 600 perfectly applied DPS with augmented (dirt cheap) hammerheads. 110k EHP tank with links, heat and full shield tank (let someone else do the tackling your job is to break ****.) Vastly quicker than any other drone boat especially with the shield ishtar now non-viable. Ship is nuts. It's the overall best pirate cruiser in the game and will remain so after losing ~40 DPS or some speed.



I don't think anyone is lamenting the DPS loss as much as the passive tanking loss. The power projection is still there, but the ability to tank the incoming damage is greatly reduced.
xXxNIMRODxXx
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#653 - 2015-12-05 22:46:06 UTC  |  Edited by: xXxNIMRODxXx
Harvey James wrote:
epic fail keeping the punisher changes, didnt it used too have cap use bonus and it was changed too damage? or was that just the maller, either way i bet punishers will be more blaster or auto fit than lasers now.


rockets baby

or... actually the next fabbed starmer ship of choice! +1 cancer!
Matrosov Glengoski Razyashchiy
Vapor Lock.
Vapor-Lock
#654 - 2015-12-06 20:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Matrosov Glengoski Razyashchiy
My concern with the recent changes is the large group of people I know that love the gila for PVE. I do think the nerf to the Gila was surely coming but to remove a low slot? That really is a tough one to take and I'm happy I don't have any gila at the moment. The orthrus? Well I knew that was coming, I had bought one recently with other toons and saw how OP the thing can be. I beg to differ that its very well possible to catch an othrus and lock it down but I guess that would require a competent fleet to do right, where trying to do it solo would be a considerable challenge.

Putting the nerfs aside, I feel (yes its an opinion) that should CCP make huge nerfs like this, they need to give people the option to reset some of the sp relating to nerfed ship(s) (but I can see how troublesome that could be to implement). If I trained a specific character to fly a certain ship only for CCP come around and nerf it yes I would be upset. Not everyone has multiple toons and for those players that only own one account I can certainly see how difficult it is for them to even attempt to try to adapt to all the changes CCP makes to the ships in game.

I'm glad the Rattle was left untouched for now, I don't see how its too "OP" when I normally don't see solo flying pvp Rattles flying around in my space. Even if I did encounter one, I have the fleet and ships to deal with most rattlesnake setups. So saying its OP is a tad bit silly in my opinion, plus you need an extremely seasoned pilot to be able to make full use of a rattlesnake, so just trying to get the drone skills to properly fly one takes months and months, then you got missiles and shields to add on? Just when the new pilots think that training core skills already takes too long. Ha that's right I have to train to train two battleship skill books to even use the base bonuses for the ship so add on another four months at least?

Edit:

Setting all this aside, does this mean CCP will be nerfing any ship that is highly used with the current meta? Perpetual nerf for all ships so ships will always be nerfed not balanced? Just a thought.

Its good for CCP trying to proactively help that game here, I just hope CCP does not shoot itself in the foot again. Thanks for the hard work CCP!
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#655 - 2015-12-07 03:59:50 UTC
xXxNIMRODxXx wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
epic fail keeping the punisher changes, didnt it used too have cap use bonus and it was changed too damage? or was that just the maller, either way i bet punishers will be more blaster or auto fit than lasers now.


rockets baby

or... actually the next fabbed starmer ship of choice! +1 cancer!


I wish it had launcher hardpoints X
sworphy
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#656 - 2015-12-08 05:29:37 UTC
EPIC Fail CCP again!!
For the love of god stop nerfing ships
Ffog
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#657 - 2015-12-08 10:48:18 UTC
And people keep asking for SP for $ just to able to fly ships after this patch!
SP for $ would be plain taking a **** on all the time older players have spent on this hobby.
Quit crying about it and invest some time like the rest of us!

Towards the changes to the frigs here \o/ i like it.
Only thing here that looks broken is the Gila-Worm nerf, it is still broken OP a better fix here would be to tone down the drone dps/healt bonus a fair bit. Specialy the kiting Worm drones that plain wont die fit is not realy nerfed at all by loosing a lowslot.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2015-12-08 10:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Matrosov Glengoski Razyashchiy wrote:
My concern with the recent changes is the large group of people I know that love the gila for PVE. I do think the nerf to the Gila was surely coming but to remove a low slot? That really is a tough one to take and I'm happy I don't have any gila at the moment. The orthrus? Well I knew that was coming, I had bought one recently with other toons and saw how OP the thing can be. I beg to differ that its very well possible to catch an othrus and lock it down but I guess that would require a competent fleet to do right, where trying to do it solo would be a considerable challenge.

Putting the nerfs aside, I feel (yes its an opinion) that should CCP make huge nerfs like this, they need to give people the option to reset some of the sp relating to nerfed ship(s) (but I can see how troublesome that could be to implement). If I trained a specific character to fly a certain ship only for CCP come around and nerf it yes I would be upset. Not everyone has multiple toons and for those players that only own one account I can certainly see how difficult it is for them to even attempt to try to adapt to all the changes CCP makes to the ships in game.

I'm glad the Rattle was left untouched for now, I don't see how its too "OP" when I normally don't see solo flying pvp Rattles flying around in my space. Even if I did encounter one, I have the fleet and ships to deal with most rattlesnake setups. So saying its OP is a tad bit silly in my opinion, plus you need an extremely seasoned pilot to be able to make full use of a rattlesnake, so just trying to get the drone skills to properly fly one takes months and months, then you got missiles and shields to add on? Just when the new pilots think that training core skills already takes too long. Ha that's right I have to train to train two battleship skill books to even use the base bonuses for the ship so add on another four months at least?

Edit:

Setting all this aside, does this mean CCP will be nerfing any ship that is highly used with the current meta? Perpetual nerf for all ships so ships will always be nerfed not balanced? Just a thought.

Its good for CCP trying to proactively help that game here, I just hope CCP does not shoot itself in the foot again. Thanks for the hard work CCP!


It's impossible to catch a linked Orthrus with a competent pilot. Add HG Snakes and it just becomes silly. Doesn't matter what your fleet comp is. Decloaking a rapier or Loki on him with dual webs MIGHT work but that's about it, and he's gonna start burning off and trying to warp as soon as he sees it so you'll have to simultaneously land a long range point (proteus, another orthrus or Gallente recon). Frigates get alpha'd offgrid in 1-3 volleys and linked Orthrus can outrun anything with tank.

The gila is still gonna be the best overall pirate cruiser. Can't really balance hulls around PvE.

60k EHP with tackle or 80k without plus 650 perfectly applied DPS (drones and RLML) inside a 50k envelope? 110k EHP with links and heated hardeners on a non-tackle fleet fit? On a cruiser? What are you complaining about again?
Irya Boone
The Scope
#659 - 2015-12-08 21:15:40 UTC
So the tristan get nerfed .. but not the garmur seriously ?

well done ccp

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
BahWeepGrahNaWeep MiniBom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#660 - 2015-12-08 21:46:59 UTC
The gila suck now as a passive tank ship. Tried it on the test server. hit certain sites or 4 ecalation and you'll either bail on the site to let your shield come back or loose your gila. In most markets it was 100M more than any other. what a terrible fricken nerf. I used it for PVE. Guess I wont any more and with the nerf, my gila aint worth what I paid for it either. Thanks CCP.