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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#641 - 2015-10-15 19:15:13 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tiranius Avetus wrote:
So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea...

Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live?

This argument is also disingenuous,

There is a fixed number of character slots per account, and managing an increasing number of accounts becomes increasingly annoying/problematic.

Practically speaking, If I want to fly Sleipnirs TODAY on my main, buying an extra character wouldn't be my solution. But with this system? Let's run some incursions for that dank sp!

You're the one who insists on it being your "main." Main characters are practically meaningless in a world where the Character Bazaar exists.


Well that, and the number of characters per account is fixed. So the number of times I can use the character bazaar to fill my "sp needs" is 3*supported accounts. Keeping in mind that the average number of accounts per individual (last time the figure was released at some fanfest IIRC) was 2.2.

So, the typical player you can use the character bazaar 6 times to fill their needs and then you HAVE to train the old fashioned way. This new method? Farm those incursions for SP as long as you want.

You grind Gnolls in WoW for XP, you grind Sanshas in Eve for SP.

I guess they don't have buddy programs or allow unused accounts to expire where you live.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#642 - 2015-10-15 19:15:25 UTC
Vogels wrote:
If anything this positively enforces sticking with your character. Corp history and reputation is more important then overall SP in this game, and more people will want to keep the former if they can adjust the ladder.

The diminishing returns is interesting, but I believe it should be more about **how much SP in a timeframe** that gets dimished, not based off your total SP.

For instance - Someone who has 80m sp, but only wants to change 5m SP every few months should not feel the same isk sink as somebody who has 80m sp, but ones to trade out 40m of it in a week.

With this type of system, long term gameplay is rewarded, those wanting instant gratification or pay-to-win are penalized.


I like it. SP injection fatigue. 500k points/week or something similar, enough to basically double your training speed.
Juliette Asanari
Voodoo Children
#643 - 2015-10-15 19:15:31 UTC
Addendum: I'm too much of a socialist to support the (SP and probably ISK) rich siphoning from the (SP) poor ;-)
Pistonbroke
Super Villains
Pandemic Horde
#644 - 2015-10-15 19:16:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Pistonbroke
This is a terrible idea.

Newer players who want to get ahead in the game can use the character bazaar to get a toon. Evidence of it changing hands is in the forums for all to see, so the disingenuous claptrap about bad rep does not hold water.

Losing the ability to gauge from the age of a character his potential skills will ruin various balances within the game, and will be very horrible for pirates, solo pvpers etc

Have you heard of "street sleepers"? these are super tuned cars which look to all intents and purposes like the standard vehicle that granny uses to run down to the supermarket to buy milk and cat-food. underneath however, they are turbocharged nutters. That's what you are proposing to create.

This is clearly a cash cow, and whilst we don't mind ccp having cash cows to milk, please bear in mind that we are already in the shed every month with our udders out.

Here is my alternative suggestion.

Have your SP reallocators, by all means, but make them only work for the toon the SPs are extracted from.
Give them a delay (24 hrs?) so that you cant fly into the station a maxxed out BS pilot, and undock as a maxxed out carrier pilot 2 mins later.
I'd happily take a 5-1 loss in the exchange rate to get rid of some of the more ******** things I've trained and to gain a small boost on some skills I would still like to gain.

Permit changes of this nature by all means, but don't create the ability for the already super rich and Highly skilled pilots to rattle up to 500m SPs within a month of the change. Likewise don't create the game breaking situation where a two month old character can be able to fly every sup-cap in the game to maximum proficiency, just because he has RL isk to burn, and wants to create a "street sleeper".

If this goes ahead, I for one will finally say enough already, and bid farewell to eve, and hello to one of the other games which are rapidly making steps ahead, such as Elite Dangerous, or Star Citizen. I'll wish you luck, and I won't look back.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#645 - 2015-10-15 19:16:03 UTC
drunklies wrote:
Eternal Bob wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts


Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints.



The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything.

Gardeners are by this logic, worthless.

What?

There's no planning or research involved with training. You plug things into evemon.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#646 - 2015-10-15 19:16:05 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Skilo wrote:
I've been playing this game since 2003

I'm a proud "owner" of a multi million skill point char who took me 12 years to get

To imagine someone can now just join eve and buy it of with real money will make me unsub all my accounts\

they already could numbnuts your sp count doesn't make you elite


Even worse he didn't read the post.

There's a big difference between an 80M SP char and a 200+M SP char.



Not if the 200M SP player bought the character and doesnt know how to fly a ship...


For example...


I, myself (2m SP currently)... Could jump into an executioner and kill a 200m SP pilot just because I manually piloted... other than orbit 500...

why? because SKILLPOINTS DOESNT MEAN 1/2 AS MUCH AS EXPERIENCE...

So all the vets crying saying this is Pay to Win.... SKILLPOINTS DOES NOT MEAN GAME EXPERIENCE...

Just means you can fly shinier ships to get blown up.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#647 - 2015-10-15 19:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Well that, and the number of characters per account is fixed. So the number of times I can use the character bazaar to fill my "sp needs" is 3*supported accounts. Keeping in mind that the average number of accounts per individual (last time the figure was released at some fanfest IIRC) was 2.2.

So, the typical player you can use the character bazaar 6 times to fill their needs and then you HAVE to train the old fashioned way. This new method? Farm those incursions for SP as long as you want.

You grind Gnolls in WoW for XP, you grind Sanshas in Eve for SP.

I guess they don't have buddy programs or allow unused accounts to expire where you live.

Most people I know don't have legions of unused accounts. A nuisance, impractical and inconvenient.
Eternal Bob
Doomheim
#648 - 2015-10-15 19:17:34 UTC
drunklies wrote:
Eternal Bob wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts


Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints.



The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything.

Gardeners are by this logic, worthless.


The only 'effort' required to amass skill points is injecting the skill book and applying it to your queue. Please don't pretend there is any real effort involved.

Biomassing to free a char slot.
Hashtag Rare Pepe
Doomheim
#649 - 2015-10-15 19:17:42 UTC
Elfaen Ethenwe wrote:
You first kill sov war alienating a huge amount of your playerbase, in particular high sp characters. Then you make owning capitals utterly pointless with fozziesov. Then you basically allow anyone to buy skillpoints to be super elite I assume so that you still have some high sp characters?




You can use your super hard earned capital sp and sell them with these Transneural Skill Packet if you wish.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#650 - 2015-10-15 19:18:12 UTC  |  Edited by: virm pasuul
The Players bought CCP pizzas :)

CCP shared the shiney new hardware details with us :)

Some fool at CCP thought that meant we were friends and could talk rationally.

A cheese move got posted on the dev blogs.

All the players are quitting!

No one can rationally explain why.

Emotions are running high.

Whoever posted this at CCP has a lot to learn about player psychology. There should have been far more kitten pictures in the dev blog post ! This is basic stuff CCP, how can you possibly not know that !?!?

The Jita monument is in danger. Again!

A player is intelligent and rational. The Players are f**king crazy lunatics.

This should be a haiku but I think I used too many syllabels.
Skilo
Lisnave
Pandemic Horde
#651 - 2015-10-15 19:18:32 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
[quote=Skilo]I've been playing this game since 2003

I'm a proud "owner" of a multi million skill point char who took me 12 years to get

To imagine someone can now just join eve and buy it of with real money will make me unsub all my accounts\

they already could numbnuts your sp count doesn't make you elite


Please post where i said i was elite.

what i say is that pay to have skill on the char you want = pay to win

And that it's not the same of buying a char. its placing skills on the char you want

you can spin all you want that it doesn't change this fact
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#652 - 2015-10-15 19:19:12 UTC
Pistonbroke wrote:

If this goes ahead, I for one will finally say enough already, and bid farewell to eve, and hello to one of the other games which are rapidly making steps ahead, such as [...] Star Citizen

I, too, pin my hopes on a confidence scam whose primary purpose is to repay debts owed to an organized crime syndicate.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#653 - 2015-10-15 19:19:54 UTC
One of the worst ideas I have ever heard. I would probably quit if this goes through. Not because I want to but because it fundamentally changes EVE for the worse.

The blog is disingenous. The problems pointed out could be solved, but are instead used to shape the narrative and attempt to create acceptance for a system that is more directly "pay2win" compared to the bazaar. It also offers flexibility that does not currently exist in that every character will have instant perfect relevant skills.
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#654 - 2015-10-15 19:20:10 UTC
Pistonbroke wrote:
This is a terrible idea.

Newer players who want to get ahead in the game can use the character bazaar to get a toon. Evidence of it changing hands is in the forums for all to see, so the disingenuous claptrap about bad rep does not hold water.

Losing the ability to gauge from the age of a character his potential skills will ruin various balances within the game, and will be very horrible for pirates, solo pvpers etc

Have you heard of "street sleepers"? these are super tuned cars which look to all intents and purposes like the standard vehicle that granny uses to run down to the supermarket to buy milk and cat-food. underneath however, they are turbocharged nutters. That's what you are proposing to create.

This is clearly a cash cow, and whilst we don't mind ccp having cash cows to milk, please bear in mind that we are already in the shed every month with our udders out.

Here is my alternative suggestion.

Have your SP reallocators, by all means, but make them only work for the toon the SPs are extracted from.
Give them a delay (24 hrs?) so that you cant fly into the station a maxxed out BS pilot, and undock as a maxxed out carrier pilot 2 mins later.
I'd happily take a 5-1 loss in the exchange rate to get rid of some of the more ******** things I've changed and to gain a small boost on some skills I would still like to gain.

Permit changes of this nature by all means, but don't create the ability for the already super rich and Highly skilled pilots to rattle up to 500m SPs within a month of the change. Likewise don't create the game breaking situation where a two month old character can be able to fly every sup-cap in the game to maximum proficiency, just because he has RL isk to burn, and wants to create a "street sleeper".

If this goes ahead, I for one will finally say enough already, and bid farewell to eve, and hello to one of the other games which are rapidly making steps ahead, such as Elite Dangerous, or Star Citizen. I'll wish you luck, and I won't look back.


Basically, your arguement is purely based on PvP...

So what your saying is that you wont PvP with someone unless they are MUCH younger than you because you know you 'out skillpoint them'?

Coward... SKillpoints doesnt mean everything... I could beat you 1 on 1 in PvP with this character with 2m SP just because I have a counter fit.. or I out manually pilot you.. or I BLOB you...

If your going to leave because I get to fly a shiny ship in a month when it took you 3 months... Go then..
Maekchu
Doomheim
#655 - 2015-10-15 19:20:38 UTC
This will be a interesting one to follow :D

Personally, I am actually not that negative towards the change.

It is not that different from using the character bazaar, since you are just paying IRL money to gain SP. If I had to choose between the character bazaar and the devblog. I think the solution in the devblog is much more elegant and easy to use.

While it sure is a P2W element, it's one I can live with. It does not really impact my own enjoyment of the game, since it only lets other people accelerate their SP. I think it is on par with accelerated XP, or other boosters sold for IRL money. As said, it is something I can live with. As long as you are not crossing the barrier towards true P2W, where you can buy OP modules and ships for money.

At the end of the day, the total amount of SP a character has does not necessarily mean a better character. It just mean, you can fly a bigger amount of ships. However, there is still a cap, on how well you can fly that frigate (SP wise).

I am however a bit worried, that the change will not promote the right aspects of eve. This change, might give the impression that SP does matter more than it actually does. Or newcomers, will just skip the title, since it resembles a bit too much P2W (especially, if they get the impression that SP is extremely important).

I'd rather have seen an overall change of the skills. Rebalancing of prereqs and training time or just a total removal of SP in general (Such that the factor that guides what you can fly is only ISK, but the whole game would need a big revamp to accommodate this).

Though given the feedback in here, I don't think this will be implemented as proposed.

But it sure have increased my intake of popcorn these last few hours.
Nuke Chicken
Effluvium.
#656 - 2015-10-15 19:20:48 UTC
For you to even make this public for discussion has taken away from me any hoPe that this Company can ever return eve to a successful online game. Its over guys. R.I.P


(WTS Eve online to someone who has a ******* clue.)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#657 - 2015-10-15 19:21:04 UTC
Rookie skip undocks from Jita IV - 4 with a cargohold filled with "Transneural Skill Packets".
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#658 - 2015-10-15 19:21:08 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Querns wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Well that, and the number of characters per account is fixed. So the number of times I can use the character bazaar to fill my "sp needs" is 3*supported accounts. Keeping in mind that the average number of accounts per individual (last time the figure was released at some fanfest IIRC) was 2.2.

So, the typical player you can use the character bazaar 6 times to fill their needs and then you HAVE to train the old fashioned way. This new method? Farm those incursions for SP as long as you want.

You grind Gnolls in WoW for XP, you grind Sanshas in Eve for SP.

I guess they don't have buddy programs or allow unused accounts to expire where you live.

Most people I know don't have legions of unused accounts. A nuisance, impractical and inconvenient.

How is it inconvenient? The account doesn't consume resources or take up space.

Also, you're significantly overestimating the number of times any one person would rush out to the character bazaar and snatch up a custom-made character just to stay ahead of the FOTM. Hell, after five years of playing, my main character can fly pretty much any subcap in eve, and I wasn't really even training specifically for any ship; i just started plugging in fives to fill the queue.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#659 - 2015-10-15 19:21:30 UTC
Querns wrote:
drunklies wrote:
Eternal Bob wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
I mean F*CK his 12 years of efforts


Explain what effort is required to gain skillpoints.



The effort involved in researching, planning, and implementing those 12 years of skills. I mean, someone spending 12 years perfecting something passive shouldn't count as having done anything.

Gardeners are by this logic, worthless.

What?

There's no planning or research involved with training. You plug things into evemon.


Eve mon def existed 12 years ago.

Point is, they still went through the effort of doing it, and no one else has, not to that extent.
S'Way
State War Academy
Caldari State
#660 - 2015-10-15 19:21:36 UTC
So this is how it ends then ?

Would have hoped there was still someone left from the old days at CCP who could see why this is a terrible idea (for all the reasons already posted by many others).