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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6221 - 2015-12-15 04:53:21 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Jon Essler wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
No its not even close to the same thing, You can't go to the bazaar and select three or four 15 / 20 million skill point industry / randomly crappy created characters then strip them all down and turn them into a perfectly trained combat character.


No, but you can buy one 80 mil SP character with the skills you want.


But that's just it. You're buying a different character. It isn't yours. It's like buying a used car. You're carrying on someone else's legacy. You're purchasing the pros and the cons.... all the baggage of that new character. If we were to view character transfers as just "buying sp," well, then you also can already "buy" a new name, a new race and/or a new contract/employment history too.

Using that convoluted logic, it isn't at all difficult to see what's next.

If they do this, it's time to retire HTFU permanently.

YK



Nice, thanks for pointing out the flaws with the bazaar. All those reasons make TSP that much more attractive.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6222 - 2015-12-15 08:39:07 UTC
Jon Essler wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
No its not even close to the same thing, You can't go to the bazaar and select three or four 15 / 20 million skill point industry / randomly crappy created characters then strip them all down and turn them into a perfectly trained combat character.


No, but you can buy one 80 mil SP character with the skills you want.

At present there are really good characters that have a commensurate price tag, when this launches any old $hit randomness, industry, miner will command the same price tag because people will want the skill points it contains not the character or the baggage that's included.

Whether you choose to see the differences or are just driven by the opportunities this presents like above, a 50m pure combat toon will fetch a good price. Three or four randomly trained / industry / miners will fetch a lot less. You can now strip them down to create a brand new pure combat pilot out of those three or four useless creations. Emphasis on the skill points they contain not the disposable sacks they've come from.
Luna Bowman
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6223 - 2015-12-15 09:01:28 UTC
dear CCP, sincerelly...

are you ******* insane? Im a noob and I can see how much of a fuckup this is.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6224 - 2015-12-15 09:26:07 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Jon Essler wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
No its not even close to the same thing, You can't go to the bazaar and select three or four 15 / 20 million skill point industry / randomly crappy created characters then strip them all down and turn them into a perfectly trained combat character.


No, but you can buy one 80 mil SP character with the skills you want.

At present there are really good characters that have a commensurate price tag, when this launches any old $hit randomness, industry, miner will command the same price tag because people will want the skill points it contains not the character or the baggage that's included.

Whether you choose to see the differences or are just driven by the opportunities this presents like above, a 50m pure combat toon will fetch a good price. Three or four randomly trained / industry / miners will fetch a lot less. You can now strip them down to create a brand new pure combat pilot out of those three or four useless creations. Emphasis on the skill points they contain not the disposable sacks they've come from.


at what cost? Care to do the math? I posted it numerous times yet people just assume these magical SP will drip out of the useless alts head.
Jon Essler
Doomheim
#6225 - 2015-12-15 10:57:14 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
Jon Essler wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
No its not even close to the same thing, You can't go to the bazaar and select three or four 15 / 20 million skill point industry / randomly crappy created characters then strip them all down and turn them into a perfectly trained combat character.


No, but you can buy one 80 mil SP character with the skills you want.


But that's just it. You're buying a different character. It isn't yours. It's like buying a used car. You're carrying on someone else's legacy. You're purchasing the pros and the cons.... all the baggage of that new character. If we were to view character transfers as just "buying sp," well, then you also can already "buy" a new name, a new race and/or a new contract/employment history too.

Using that convoluted logic, it isn't at all difficult to see what's next.

If they do this, it's time to retire HTFU permanently.

YK


Guess what is the major determining factor in the value of characters on the bazaar... I'll give you a clue, it's not their baggage. It's a factor to a minor degree: corp history etc do affect value. But it's all about the SP baby.

The bazaar exists because it's currently the only way to buy SP. People don't browse the bazaar so they can "carry on someone else's legacy" (rofl).
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6226 - 2015-12-15 11:01:54 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Jon Essler wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
No its not even close to the same thing, You can't go to the bazaar and select three or four 15 / 20 million skill point industry / randomly crappy created characters then strip them all down and turn them into a perfectly trained combat character.


No, but you can buy one 80 mil SP character with the skills you want.

At present there are really good characters that have a commensurate price tag, when this launches any old $hit randomness, industry, miner will command the same price tag because people will want the skill points it contains not the character or the baggage that's included.

Whether you choose to see the differences or are just driven by the opportunities this presents like above, a 50m pure combat toon will fetch a good price. Three or four randomly trained / industry / miners will fetch a lot less. You can now strip them down to create a brand new pure combat pilot out of those three or four useless creations. Emphasis on the skill points they contain not the disposable sacks they've come from.


at what cost? Care to do the math? I posted it numerous times yet people just assume these magical SP will drip out of the useless alts head.

I have 8 accounts with roughly 740m across all pilots, i don't need to do the math it will cost me just the extractor. I've tied it to the plex which i can see happening and them being ridiculously expensive for the average joe to purchase and been told some are willing to virtually give them away.

I stated before it's of no concern to me whatever happens, but i do think its wrong to implement something of this nature and not make it available to everyone. This isn't going to draw people in if they don't have access to it, all it will do is drive an even bigger wedge between those who have and those who do not.

I'm looking at the bigger picture not just how it benefits me.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#6227 - 2015-12-15 12:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Yonis Kador
It is offensive.
Mioka Zahou
Perkone
Caldari State
#6228 - 2015-12-15 14:39:02 UTC
... ah hell sounds like fun, go for it CCP.Big smile
Hamish McRothimay
Norse Complex Inc
#6229 - 2015-12-15 16:18:33 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:
Jon Essler wrote:


Hamish McRothimay wrote:
I don't want to play in a game where other players can pay $100 for 150 million skill points when my subscription should be enough.


You are already playing that game.


I missed that, where do I find them, I need to buy 75 million SP for my main, 50mill for alt 1 & 25mill for alt 2 - where do I pay my $100.


Why are you spouting nonsense? 100$ will buy you 5 PLEX = 6b ISK or so

Where did you get the idea of 150m SP for 6B ISK?

Please stop with the exaggerations, I am pretty sure CCP can handle basic math and you are not fooling TSP supporters either.


Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about using MONEY to buy PLEX ?
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6230 - 2015-12-15 19:41:12 UTC
Hamish McRothimay wrote:


Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about using MONEY to buy PLEX ?



well uhh soooo hmmmm.... ok where I am from the "$" implies a dollar amount.

Where are you from?

Surely you could elaborate more on your numbers to purchase 150m SP characters since your conversion rates seem to be off by a few decimals.

....unless..... nah.... you would not.... would?..... nah no way you were elluding to RMT, that would be unreasonable considering that the bazaar needs 2 PLEX for any amount of SP to exchange hands while TSP will use approximately 1 PLEX / 1.5m SP......yeah doubt you were implying that purchasing TSP by violating the EULA is cheaper then the bazaar... right?
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6231 - 2015-12-15 20:18:43 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:


Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about using MONEY to buy PLEX ?



well uhh soooo hmmmm.... ok where I am from the "$" implies a dollar amount.

Where are you from?

Surely you could elaborate more on your numbers to purchase 150m SP characters since your conversion rates seem to be off by a few decimals.

....unless..... nah.... you would not.... would?..... nah no way you were elluding to RMT, that would be unreasonable considering that the bazaar needs 2 PLEX for any amount of SP to exchange hands while TSP will use approximately 1 PLEX / 1.5m SP......yeah doubt you were implying that purchasing TSP by violating the EULA is cheaper then the bazaar... right?

You are a first class P**** , he was saying why should he play a game that's a subscription based game then be expected to fork out even more money on top.

You replied you already are playing it

so sarcastically he answered he's my $100 give me my skill points, You need to read what people write before spouting your drivel back.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6232 - 2015-12-15 20:25:51 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:
Rat Scout wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:


Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about using MONEY to buy PLEX ?



well uhh soooo hmmmm.... ok where I am from the "$" implies a dollar amount.

Where are you from?

Surely you could elaborate more on your numbers to purchase 150m SP characters since your conversion rates seem to be off by a few decimals.

....unless..... nah.... you would not.... would?..... nah no way you were elluding to RMT, that would be unreasonable considering that the bazaar needs 2 PLEX for any amount of SP to exchange hands while TSP will use approximately 1 PLEX / 1.5m SP......yeah doubt you were implying that purchasing TSP by violating the EULA is cheaper then the bazaar... right?

You are a first class P**** , he was saying why should he play a game that's a subscription based game then be expected to fork out even more money on top.

You replied you already are playing it

so sarcastically he answered he's my $100 give me my skill points, You need to read what people write before spouting your drivel back.



Well, I didn't actually say he is playing it, but that doesn't change the fact. He can go buy about 5 to 6 million skillpoints on the bazaar with 100$ right now and if he doesn't like that then he can certainly biomass if he wishes.

You still worried about your top 10 SP list? And whats with the name calling? Daddy issues?
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6233 - 2015-12-15 20:33:35 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:
Rat Scout wrote:
Hamish McRothimay wrote:


Where on earth did you get the idea that I was talking about using MONEY to buy PLEX ?



well uhh soooo hmmmm.... ok where I am from the "$" implies a dollar amount.

Where are you from?

Surely you could elaborate more on your numbers to purchase 150m SP characters since your conversion rates seem to be off by a few decimals.

....unless..... nah.... you would not.... would?..... nah no way you were elluding to RMT, that would be unreasonable considering that the bazaar needs 2 PLEX for any amount of SP to exchange hands while TSP will use approximately 1 PLEX / 1.5m SP......yeah doubt you were implying that purchasing TSP by violating the EULA is cheaper then the bazaar... right?

You are a first class P**** , he was saying why should he play a game that's a subscription based game then be expected to fork out even more money on top.

You replied you already are playing it

so sarcastically he answered he's my $100 give me my skill points, You need to read what people write before spouting your drivel back.



Well, I didn't actually say he is playing it, but that doesn't change the fact. He can go buy about 5 to 6 million skillpoints on the bazaar with 100$ right now and if he doesn't like that then he can certainly biomass if he wishes.

You still worried about your top 10 SP list? And whats with the name calling? Daddy issues?

1 - im no where near the ranking of those guys, i forgot you never read posts thoroughly just skim the parts you think you can irritate people with.
2 - He never mentioned buying into the game as i said before he was being sarcastic, you clearly lack the ability to understand it.
3 - My dad's been dead years, im 53 - Long past the point of puberty when i still thought that thing is my trousers was for purely urination. By your comments though i doubt your even at that point yet.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6234 - 2015-12-15 20:35:58 UTC
Still waiting for a sound argument against TSP, looks like your initial concept is perfect CCP.
Go ahead and schedule it for the next release CCP, I can't wait to utilize it.
Josef Djugashvilis
#6235 - 2015-12-15 20:37:52 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Still waiting for a sound argument against TSP, looks like your initial concept is perfect CCP.
Go ahead and schedule it for the next release CCP, I can't wait to utilize it.


Please feel free to troll.

Oh, you are Smile

This is not a signature.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6236 - 2015-12-15 20:40:08 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Rat Scout wrote:
Still waiting for a sound argument against TSP, looks like your initial concept is perfect CCP.
Go ahead and schedule it for the next release CCP, I can't wait to utilize it.


Please feel free to troll.

Oh, you are Smile


Please refer from off topic posts, this is not GD.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6237 - 2015-12-15 21:25:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Berrice Silf wrote:

I have 8 accounts with roughly 740m across all pilots, i don't need to do the math it will cost me just the extractor. I've tied it to the plex which i can see happening and them being ridiculously expensive for the average joe to purchase and been told some are willing to virtually give them away.

I stated before it's of no concern to me whatever happens, but i do think its wrong to implement something of this nature and not make it available to everyone. This isn't going to draw people in if they don't have access to it, all it will do is drive an even bigger wedge between those who have and those who do not.

I'm looking at the bigger picture not just how it benefits me.
The more SP you have, the more you stand to lose through consolidation. Every person who states "I have x SP across characters and this won't cost me anything" is completely failing to account for the fact that 740m SP across as few as 8 characters is something to the tune of a single 300mill SP character and 7 different 5m SP husks assuming one of them was a 2003 char in the ~250mill SP range to begin with. It gets worse if the peak is lower on number of characters higher.

If that's a draw to some people that's fine, but costing yourself to the tune of 400m SP isn't just the extractors. It's the utility those 7+ trained characters provided.

Hamish McRothimay wrote:
I don't want to play in a game where other players can pay $100 for 150 million skill points when my subscription should be enough.
Your subscription is enough and would continue to be enough as nothing about the way your sub allows you to train skills would change.

If you're meaning that you would need to keep pace with those who did spend on SP, you can't keep pace with those who have more SP than you now, so why would that become important later?

If you're meaning that the sub should entitle you to 100mill SP, it would in exactly the same way as now.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6238 - 2015-12-15 21:52:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:

I have 8 accounts with roughly 740m across all pilots, i don't need to do the math it will cost me just the extractor. I've tied it to the plex which i can see happening and them being ridiculously expensive for the average joe to purchase and been told some are willing to virtually give them away.

I stated before it's of no concern to me whatever happens, but i do think its wrong to implement something of this nature and not make it available to everyone. This isn't going to draw people in if they don't have access to it, all it will do is drive an even bigger wedge between those who have and those who do not.

I'm looking at the bigger picture not just how it benefits me.
The more SP you have, the more you stand to lose through consolidation. Every person who states "I have x SP across characters and this won't cost me anything" is either completely failing to account for the fact that 740m SP across as few as 8 characters is something to the tune of a single 300mill SP character and 7 different 5m SP husks assuming one of them was a 2003 char in the ~250mill SP range to begin with. It gets worse if the peak is lower on number of characters higher.

If that's a draw to some people that's fine, but costing yourself to the tune of 400m SP isn't just the extractors. It's the utility those 7+ trained characters provided.

Hamish McRothimay wrote:
I don't want to play in a game where other players can pay $100 for 150 million skill points when my subscription should be enough.
Your subscription is enough and would continue to be enough as nothing about the way your sub allows you to train skills would change.

If you're meaning that you would need to keep pace with those who did spend on SP, you can't keep pace with those who have more SP than you now, so why would that become important later?

If you're meaning that the sub should entitle you to 100mill SP, it would in exactly the same way as now.

I have no intention of merging any of my characters tyson, i was just explaining to Rat that i am in a position that what ever happens it wont affect me. He's deluded into thinking i have some high ranked character when ive already stated my highest one is just coming to 120m now but i do have quite a few around that mark. and they on 11 pilots over the 8. My main concern is that doing it this way won't benefit everyone. Without the availability your not going to attract previous trialists / younger pilots who left or new players.

What they going to do advertise the fact that now you can jump straight into the thick of it totally immersive environment with the ability to speed train with the TSP, you log on and find you either have to jump through hoops to get them or invest in 10 plex just to advance a few months.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6239 - 2015-12-15 21:57:03 UTC
Berrice Silf wrote:


What they going to do advertise the fact that now you can jump straight into the thick of it totally immersive environment with the ability to speed train with the TSP, you log on and find you either have to jump through hoops to get them or invest in 10 plex just to advance a few months.


You know if you used present tense, this actually makes sense.

Otherwise you are just making "assumptions" that have zero net effect on the current status quo.
Berrice Silf
Academy of the Imperial Guards
#6240 - 2015-12-15 22:07:52 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Berrice Silf wrote:


What they going to do advertise the fact that now you can jump straight into the thick of it totally immersive environment with the ability to speed train with the TSP, you log on and find you either have to jump through hoops to get them or invest in 10 plex just to advance a few months.


You know if you used present tense, this actually makes sense.

Otherwise you are just making "assumptions" that have zero net effect on the current status quo.

Well seeing as the OP hasn't had the decency to even give us a heads up on what even the cost's theyre contemplating the extractor to be then every single comment here is purely speculative. Hopefully they may see sense and hit the abort button in it's current incarnation and go back to the drawing board on generating income.