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Perhaps they consider one advantage "fair" and the other "unfair"

The difference being they can't kill the bazaar... or perhaps they think it too is "unfair" but just can't kill it


I shall spend my time to farm isk in order to obtain these tsp.
Actually investing time, you know. Different from the passage of time.


Maybe the issue is that ths passage of time gives an unfair advantage over the investment of time playing the game. We all know with implants it's better to not play the game and rely on the passage of time for skills...

Is it possible that we could agree TSP is a balance to the bazaar?

Everyone is equal, because you want to spend your time chasing the white rabbit is your choice. Just dont come whining about it later is not an elitist statement. Your playing it how you want to play it but because you treat it like a second job to fund your gameplay you have little time left for the finer parts of the game and its content.

I say do it. I have several pilots I would love to push all the SP into one or two,
The diminishing return is a bit to low. You should get more for all those years of training and cash.
After all they are real life clock ticks out of our lives. You don't seem to realize this.
For all those who hate it you are just angry others will fly what you can fly. TO BAD,
My main was born the day after eve launched. I quit playing for a few years I would love to take SP from my other pilots.
Without cash the game goes away. Its not all about you.

On the other hand. There should be new content for older players. For example.
How about a new Gate that takes you to a new universe that you can't come back from.
The new universe offers new skills and ships that you can only get in the new universe.
You need a certain number of SP and minimum age to go through. You can take your isk but it needs to be converted to a new monetary system and exchange rate is such that taking billions of isk is not a huge advantage over the poorest players.
These new skills could be for learning to create and fly ships based on biomimetics, "living ships".
Whereas the old skills are needed as a basis to use these new ships.
This is a truly an evolution and continuance of eve.
You don't have to screw with old content in order to make it APPEAR as new content.
This new universe should also only allow newer computers with newer OS's so there is no limit to the newest technology for the very best game play. Get rid of the Box shaped ships.
This should go without saying keep the current eve system running.


Evolve now don't rehash. We are sick of it.
Imagine new from scratch CLEAN code with the experiences of the old game.
Maybe use that old cluster for this right now...
Willing to accept huge amounts of isk for the idea.

I agree with Alavaria Fera about it

I`ve already told you why I`m not doing that. Your logic is shortsighted and self centric. I`m not wasting my time to seek that out only to provide you something you can do yourself. Plus, as I already stated, my cause and your cause are totally different. You fight for your personal cause, I fight for game sake. You are actually the one manipulating and just want to "win" at any cost since you think you are getting something. Actually YOU are the one who wanted answers and I told you where you can find them. As I already wrote it, this will be implemented and a year after it we will see who was right about it. I really hope it would be you, but due to all anecdotes I had with this game and all the side effects I mentioned I highly suspect that outcome.

And again, I am not dodging anything. You dodged to read them and comment them. In past (as you were active on the topic at that time) and now as well. I own you nothing and I can only look at you as an enemy since you are fighting for something which I see will cause a serious damage to the game. I can be polite but forget courtesy. I am not obliging you to anything at all, I just pointed out that if you want them you can read them. You have as many chances to do that as you want :)



I did not refute them. I refuted some which are wrong and some logical fallacies. On some I have agreed. But I keep stressing out that side effects are bigger than benefit. And that is why I am strongly against this idea.




Lol. You have been active on this topic when those were posted. Yet you did not read/challenge them. Ie I have covered the subject weeks ago. And I am the one to blame if you act that you just showed up here and we should provide you links to previous discussions or whatever. Are you some official judge who will make a decision on the subject? Get real :D

As I mentioned already, if you were fighting for the games sake I would probably do it. But you are just posting to "win" over other side, you are not having discussion, you are waging private forum war over a subject you have no influence at all (neither does anyone else as CCP care about players feedback obviously). At least not like lootit and similar though.

I can`t copy/paste it since I do not remember where they are. And even posting here at all is a waste of time I can afford that much. But I do not want to search through the page 1 to find them. If CCP got the message then great, it was for them. Hope they will make sure to cover all possible side effects or at least assure as that will not happen. If anyone else wants to read it and think about it, put an effort. I`ll gladly repeat as often as you "challenge" . Simple as that.

For my ad hominem attacks I apologize. I was under impression that you and me have the same cause just the different POVs and I wanted to push you into taking someone`s else POV to see what I am talking about. Meanwhile I realized that your POV is after your own interests and while perfectly understandable stance, that is something totally unacceptable for me. For rationality of arguments, please respond to the list to provide the same. As now we got it to fundamentals, most of assumptions is out of play.

1. Now you openly lie, you just said that your skills were above your sp when you flew drake and were offered T3 :)
2. Interesting, how can you see through it when you did not read it?
3. As mentioned above I labeled you in order to "push" you to try other perspective. Later on I realized that since the start of the topic your POV and aim was the same. Not discussion and making the good for the game but just to win in fight for your personal benefit. Which is still egocentrical but acceptable since you fight for your own not for game, but it is same like discussion with Dror - a waste of time since the main ideas are totally diametrically opposed.

Please do not quote me anymore since it seems that either you can just take things out of context and troll or lack basic ability to understand what I write even though my English is quite simple. Also, I hope you will understand that instead of spending time to write you replies I will chose to do something more worth of that time, like watching at ceiling, picking my nose or any activity which requires only breathing. Have a nice day!

A few things:
1: TSP comes from time
2: Obtaining TSP via isk also always comes from time

Thus there is never any point at which one can bypass the time investment. One just has to entice those who have made the investment to part with it.

So regardless of the number of times that quote is repeated it won't actually have the meaning you intend since everything still has it's origin in time (and money).

a) No, you're just making the mistake of conflating average wallet values in 2012 with isk earning potential today or any other point in the future. I don't have to argue against official stats because those stats don't actually prove what you're trying to twist them to prove. You're also making an assumption that those that don't have the isk for TSP cannot make it. Your position only holds true if everyone is functioning at their isk making limits and has no further potential for growth. That's a claim you must prove and no stat regarding wallet counts from 2012 will do that.
b) No, you gave an example showing it didn't apply to you personally. If you were the only player in the game that would mean I was wrong, but you aren't. Your personal experience on the matter doesn't constitute me being wrong so long as anyone feels differently.
e) Go find out yourself if you want a number. That said it won't have to be billions per player because for a brand new player 1 TSP doubles their SP and opens options. That's really all you need in some cases.
g) I fully get what you're saying, it's just that between points you self contradict. We have 2 different expectations here. You seem to think no one will buy a PLEX for TSP, I don't think that's correct and there will be some introduction of new PLEX.
h) And the problem here is that you're still assuming that number is a static value not subject to change with game changes. You've yet to justify that. Beyond that there's no issue with waiting and training normally. There's no mandate saying everyone should take advantage of this. Especially those with little familiarity with the skill system as their mistakes are disproportionately expensive.
k) Being undocked makes getting blown up easier
m) You have a very inconsistent stance on whether this will inject new PLEX, claiming it must because people won't be able to participate but won't because people are unwilling to spend.
n) We're discussing the benefits of TSP, such as how it solves an issue created by the Bazaar.

That limit must be very important for old customers who want to maintain SP gap.