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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5941 - 2015-12-02 20:01:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
A Ingus wrote:
There have been so many posts back and forth about how the character bazaar is not the same thing. The logical fallacy for your point is that if it was the same thing there would be no reason to introduce TSPs. There would be no OP.

Also, you can characterize all the critiques of the OP as bittervet syndrome that throttles progression all you want, it does not make it so.
The character Bazaar is used the same way now that TSP would be if it were introduced. People go there to buy SP. They get characters because that is the only way to get that SP. It's the same end point save for some baggage that frankly goes against the fundamental idea of consequence.

Unless the proper consequence for performing criminal acts is to sell the reputation for profit and a clear character slot to repeat the crimes.

As far as the objections not being bittervet syndrome, that's true. They're a mix of that and suggestions that SP inequality for any reason other than sub length is game breaking somehow.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5942 - 2015-12-02 20:21:53 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:


Let alone that it will fail miserably in getting large number of players and keeping them in the game.



This is about CCP getting more revenue, not about more new players. Do some math and figure out how much money is generated for CCP by trading a 50m character now vs the near future with TSP's.


CCP revenue is their own problem, by going in the wrong direction with the game they are just going to shoot their own foot and all microtransactions wont be near the revenue lost by canceled subscriptions. And regardless of that, sorting their finance is their own issue, I speak from loyal, long term paying customer perspective, customer which is worried about the service heis paying for and their providing of the same. If it is obvious that they are going in the wrong direction for some time, I will raise my voice against it.

Not sure if you are aware but character bazaar remains there as it is. So they will have some minor increase in revenue with TSP, but will it be bigger than canceled subscriptions? By players feedback I really doubt it.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5943 - 2015-12-02 20:24:42 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
A Ingus wrote:
There have been so many posts back and forth about how the character bazaar is not the same thing. The logical fallacy for your point is that if it was the same thing there would be no reason to introduce TSPs. There would be no OP.

Also, you can characterize all the critiques of the OP as bittervet syndrome that throttles progression all you want, it does not make it so.
The character Bazaar is used the same way now that TSP would be if it were introduced. People go there to buy SP. They get characters because that is the only way to get that SP. It's the same end point save for some baggage that frankly goes against the fundamental idea of consequence.

Unless the proper consequence for performing criminal acts is to sell the reputation for profit and a clear character slot to repeat the crimes.

As far as the objections not being bittervet syndrome, that's true. They're a mix of that and suggestions that SP inequality for any reason other than sub length is game breaking somehow.


No, it is not the same. You cannot stack that "purchased SP" in form of another character to your original character ie you are buying different character with all pros&cons in his development, history... No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be the same.

If it is the same, why introduce TSP and keep character bazaar at the same time?

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5944 - 2015-12-02 21:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Don ZOLA wrote:
No, it is not the same. You cannot stack that "purchased SP" in form of another character to your original character ie you are buying different character with all pros&cons in his development, history... No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be the same.

If it is the same, why introduce TSP and keep character bazaar at the same time?
That distinction is irrelevant to my claim. The fact is with a character purchase you have no need to stack SP since you are buying a capability set in character form. You want a T3 character? You buy a T3 character. Need a cap sitter? That's what you buy.

Why? Because it's come to the point that ability is what you are after. The SP. The thing you essentially buying. That you can't transfer it on purchase doesn't invalidate that.

Last question is pointless because it conflates "used the same way" with "is the same." One I said, the other you pulled from who knows where. I would think if you read the post you quoted where I highlighted one of the most cited differences you would pick up on that distinction.

Edit: But if you reallty want a reason that's pretty simple too:
Want a quick alt? Character Bazaar.
Don't care about the Character you created? Character Bazaar.
Want a quick entry into a function where name/rep don't matter? Character Bazaar.
Want a quick SP boost for a short term training goal? TSP.
Want to fully tailor a character from start to finish? TSP.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5945 - 2015-12-03 01:05:51 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:
No, it is not the same. You cannot stack that "purchased SP" in form of another character to your original character ie you are buying different character with all pros&cons in his development, history... No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be the same.

If it is the same, why introduce TSP and keep character bazaar at the same time?

That distinction is irrelevant to my claim. The fact is with a character purchase you have no need to stack SP since you are buying a capability set in character form. You want a T3 character? You buy a T3 character. Need a cap sitter? That's what you buy.

Why? Because it's come to the point that ability is what you are after. The SP. The thing you essentially buying. That you can't transfer it on purchase doesn't invalidate that.

Last question is pointless because it conflates "used the same way" with "is the same." One I said, the other you pulled from who knows where. I would think if you read the post you quoted where I highlighted one of the most cited differences you would pick up on that distinction.

Edit: But if you reallty want a reason that's pretty simple too:
Want a quick alt? Character Bazaar.
Don't care about the Character you created? Character Bazaar.
Want a quick entry into a function where name/rep don't matter? Character Bazaar.
Want a quick SP boost for a short term training goal? TSP.
Want to fully tailor a character from start to finish? TSP.


Well that distinction makes your whole claim void as if we are discussing, we have to discuss "whole picture", not just one aspect of it.

It does provide you some additional ability. But that comes at the cost of "personalisation" of the char, ie you are buying some other character which has that ability, you are not buying ability for your original character. Though I can agree that for some people it does not matter.

When you come to the point that ability is what you are after, you have already spent time in the game to learn, earn and develop your char, so it should not take you long to get that ability either. There can be a small portion of people whose learning goes faster than their "sp abilities" but that portion is quite small. For majority sp ability comes right in time :)

It is the same way or it is the same, question of semantics... The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5946 - 2015-12-03 01:29:34 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:




It is the same way or it is the same, question of semantics... The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.


The point standing is only relevant if the change of game fundamental is creating a less enjoyable environment for most players as a whole.

I think you are closer to the base viewpoint that I believe the supporters of this change have, when you get there maybe we can have some honest discussions what exactly is wrong with TSP and who really is trying to bang the drums louder then they need to.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5947 - 2015-12-03 01:39:43 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:




It is the same way or it is the same, question of semantics... The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.


The point standing is only relevant if the change of game fundamental is creating a less enjoyable environment for most players as a whole.

I think you are closer to the base viewpoint that I believe the supporters of this change have, when you get there maybe we can have some honest discussions what exactly is wrong with TSP and who really is trying to bang the drums louder then they need to.


Well it obviously does create a less enjoyable environment. People are already canceling subscriptions and much more said they will do it if it really hits. As I keep mentioning and no one of "pro sayers" seems to understand this is precedent which goes out of game limits. They are changing the fundamental part of the service which they were providing to their customers. And there is obviously plenty of customers who are not happy with it. Will there be more of those who will be attracted to the game by those changes and will the revenue and profit go up in time due to this? Time will tell but I strongly doubt it.

Not to even mention other possible side effects, for me this one is enough to know that I cannot lean on CCP and that I should not have any long term plans for the game anymore.

I have already stated numerous reasons why this is wrong over 200 pages ago, I cannot be arsed to copy/paste them as I do not think your or mine comments actually matter to CCP. And I do not really care if you will agree with me or not, I would just want CCP officials to communicate and explain what damage control they plan when those hit (or why they think they will not happen). So far I have not seen a single proper reason why this might be good. I can understand some personal gains some people will get, but as I said I really doubt the game and player base will gain anything. Ie one more step in the wrong direction by CCP.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#5948 - 2015-12-03 12:09:37 UTC
Has there been any update from CCP concerning this?
Amanda Orion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#5949 - 2015-12-03 12:21:41 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Has there been any update from CCP concerning this?


No.

The purpose of this thread was solely to gauge the level of anger.

Now they will compare the level of anger vs the extra profit, and make their decision.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5950 - 2015-12-03 14:49:33 UTC
Feel more like an IQ test.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5951 - 2015-12-03 16:24:07 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Don ZOLA wrote:

Well it obviously does create a less enjoyable environment. People are already canceling subscriptions

"I strongly doubt it" Anyway they are not customers anymore.
Don ZOLA wrote:

The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.

What kind of "fundamentals"?
Don ZOLA wrote:
They are changing the fundamental part of the service which they were providing to their customers. And there is obviously plenty of customers who are not happy with it.

Don ZOLA wrote:

You will never be able to overcome me in SP unless I quit and that makes me happy Blink

Of course "fundamental" like this makes you happy. Who would doubt it?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5952 - 2015-12-03 18:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Don ZOLA
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

Well it obviously does create a less enjoyable environment. People are already canceling subscriptions

"I strongly doubt it" Anyway they are not customers anymore.
Don ZOLA wrote:

The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.

What kind of "fundamentals"?
Don ZOLA wrote:
They are changing the fundamental part of the service which they were providing to their customers. And there is obviously plenty of customers who are not happy with it.

Don ZOLA wrote:

You will never be able to overcome me in SP unless I quit and that makes me happy Blink

Of course "fundamental" like this makes you happy. Who would doubt it?


1. Some of them are. Ie they have canceled some accounts but not all. Does not need a genius to think of that, does it?
2. I have already wrote numerous times about this, go troll someone else
3. That was trolling for troll. This change does not make me happy, regardless of would I have more sp than some random troll.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5953 - 2015-12-03 19:24:36 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Don ZOLA wrote:

That was trolling for troll.

I told you...
Quote:
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

Don ZOLA wrote:

Some of them are. Ie they have canceled some accounts but not all.

They become less valuable.
Don ZOLA wrote:
I have already wrote numerous times about this

Yea side effects, concerns, etc

You worry when the weather's cold
You worry when it's hot
You worry when you're doing well
You worry when you're not
It's worry worry all the time

You may need help. Anxiety and OCD are not a joke.
Don ZOLA wrote:
go troll someone else

Trollin' troll it's like rock'n'roll but with different spelling. ;)™

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5954 - 2015-12-03 19:29:52 UTC
Don ZOLA wrote:
Well that distinction makes your whole claim void as if we are discussing, we have to discuss "whole picture", not just one aspect of it.
Indeed, and the most important aspect is how the features are being used, not the specific differences that constitute a real but irrelevant difference. And in the case those differences exist evaluate whether they hold value or not.

So the end is still the same, people are buying SP in character form now, but are still buying SP. The only difference is the sale of consequence which makes no sense if you actually believe consequence worthwhile.

There are no penalties for waste SP so that becomes an effective non-differentiation between the 2.

The only thing left is the ability to add SP to an existing character, which has yet to be proven as game breaking. Several statements claiming it is, but then the current SP system runs afoul the same core objections.

Don ZOLA wrote:
It does provide you some additional ability. But that comes at the cost of "personalisation" of the char, ie you are buying some other character which has that ability, you are not buying ability for your original character. Though I can agree that for some people it does not matter.
And as stated above, why that distinction matters, or more specifically why it's a negative is pretty poorly defined. Fact is for every character ever sold that was a non-consideration or a consideration that lost to function.

Don ZOLA wrote:
When you come to the point that ability is what you are after, you have already spent time in the game to learn, earn and develop your char, so it should not take you long to get that ability either. There can be a small portion of people whose learning goes faster than their "sp abilities" but that portion is quite small. For majority sp ability comes right in time :)
That's a very strong series of statements. I'll just ask directly:

Do you have anything remotely resembling actual proof that proficiency and training times are linked in any manner?
How do you account for this holding true when access to a tool and max SP efficiency with that tool are so far apart?
How do you account for the fact that max SP efficiency for a tool can be reached without ever having any experience?
How do you account for the fact that you cannot access a specialty tool to get experience without having trained it, ensuring that capability came before practice?

Essentially what I'm highlighting here is the fact that since SP and activities related to that SP are not mutually dependent, statements about SP coming "just in time" are really ignorant of how training works. Further those statements make a completely unjustifiable series of assumptions about personal learning curves in relation to training time on top of assuming them all equal.

Don ZOLA wrote:
It is the same way or it is the same, question of semantics... The point still stands, it is different because buying sp alters game fundamentals.
No, it goes beyond semantics. It goes into determining if those aspects changed alter the game for the good or the bad. There is a lot of assumption to the bad, but little justification beyond "Anything besides SP over time per character is bad because we say so."
A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
#5955 - 2015-12-03 20:46:28 UTC  |  Edited by: A Ingus
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The character Bazaar is used the same way now that TSP would be if it were introduced. People go there to buy SP. They get characters because that is the only way to get that SP. It's the same end point save for some baggage that frankly goes against the fundamental idea of consequence.

Unless the proper consequence for performing criminal acts is to sell the reputation for profit and a clear character slot to repeat the crimes.

As far as the objections not being bittervet syndrome, that's true. They're a mix of that and suggestions that SP inequality for any reason other than sub length is game breaking somehow.

Buying characters is not the only way to get sp. Paid time in a character is the only way to get sp. Buying a character through the bazaar was a compromise CCP had to make to kill off RMT of characters, and the resulting account and identity/credit card ripoffs which caused CCP much headache. What the person is buying is somebodys paid time with a character.

What makes TSP different is that individual characters will no longer gain sp through the same method. Some will gain more relative sp through an expenditure of rl money. All characters will no longer be created equal, equal through sp accumulation method.

This is more than a crack, more like a fissure, in the foundation of how characters accumulate sp. It is one step toward all the other clones on the market atm. The unique aspect of eve character development will be lost. At that point it will not take much more to just junk the whole sp system and convert to an xp system.

As for character history and the bazaar, there are other ways CCP could address that. And name changes the same. But apparently CCP does not see the same $ in other routes. So here we are with destroying the uniqueness and for some or many the soul of this game in some hail mary pass to getting more subs. Subs that will no longer be created equal. Good luck with that selling point.

Rat Scout wrote:
I think you are closer to the base viewpoint that I believe the supporters of this change have, when you get there maybe we can have some honest discussions what exactly is wrong with TSP and who really is trying to bang the drums louder then they need to.

Your posts and Lootits drip with pith and lack of honest discussion. So, no, its you. You who have a lack of honesty and frankly are beating the drums louder because you think this change will somehow benefit your character.

Or to be more charitable you may think it might help new players. The problem is it would only be those new players with cash, and probably also with some more advanced game knowledge than your average newbie. This change will really only benefit a few relatively newish players that have alts or rl cash to dump into the game in the elusive quest for some kind of perfectWhat? character.

Rat Scout wrote:
[in response to a comment that CCP is comparing the level of anger vs the extra profit, and make their decision accordingly] Feel more like an IQ test.

Flippant ad hominem argument against those that disagree with you. Behold your honest discussion.Roll
A Ingus
Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships
#5956 - 2015-12-03 21:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: A Ingus
General Lootit wrote:
Don ZOLA wrote:

Well it obviously does create a less enjoyable environment. People are already canceling subscriptions

"I strongly doubt it" Anyway they are not customers anymore.

Well here is one that is waiting for his last account out of 4 former accounts to time out in January. And I doubt I am alone in this. So you are wrong. Still a customer, but willing to stop being one and not come back if this floated idea gets implemented.

As for the toungue in cheek exchange with Don Zola over having more sp, my response is the joke is that this is not an sp race game. There is no level 80 skill level, or purchased out of game magical item, contest. To engage in an sp race is to misunderstand what this game is about.

It has always been about setting goals and working toward them patiently. But over the years more instant gratification mechanisms have snuck in along with people that want ways to achieve in that way.

When I started your starting sp was laughable. It was a big deal months into the game to get my first BC, a prophecy back when they frankly sucked even. I set other goals, and worked toward them over time. And I was not alone in that endeavor. That is the investment in this game that made and still yet makes it great.

But all that will lost like tears in the rain . .
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5957 - 2015-12-03 21:19:11 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

Indeed, and the most important aspect is how the features are being used, not the specific differences that constitute a real but irrelevant difference. And in the case those differences exist evaluate whether they hold value or not.

So the end is still the same, people are buying SP in character form now, but are still buying SP. The only difference is the sale of consequence which makes no sense if you actually believe consequence worthwhile.

There are no penalties for waste SP so that becomes an effective non-differentiation between the 2.

The only thing left is the ability to add SP to an existing character, which has yet to be proven as game breaking. Several statements claiming it is, but then the current SP system runs afoul the same core objections.


I think the most important aspect as side effects. If CCP did not already have a trend of going in wrong direction maybe we could skip over it and trust them in what they are doing. Unfortunately it is not the case, so if no one else players have to raise the voice and point to the side effects and then either get comments from CCP or like in this occasion they will show us that they do not really care about our feedback. We will see will it backfire (again). 7

Why it is still not the same - because all that sp is still distributed over different characters and cannot be "stacked" on one. Why it is not irrelevant - because it is changing game fundamentals. And that influences whole customer - service provider relationship. I cannot be arsed to write more details again, find some of my WOT`s on this subject on previous pages.


Tyberius Franklin wrote:

And as stated above, why that distinction matters, or more specifically why it's a negative is pretty poorly defined. Fact is for every character ever sold that was a non-consideration or a consideration that lost to function.


I actually defined the most of side effects in details in over 4 WOT`s, so I cannot be arsed to do it again. Though, you can still find it poorly defined, but at least you would have to read it first. I admit I am a bit non constructive with answers like this but I already wrote thousands of characters on this subject and I do not see point in repeating myself, especially since the ones it was aimed at (CCP) are not bothered to discuss. So basically, both you and me are wasting time here :)

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

That's a very strong series of statements. I'll just ask directly:

Do you have anything remotely resembling actual proof that proficiency and training times are linked in any manner?
How do you account for this holding true when access to a tool and max SP efficiency with that tool are so far apart?
How do you account for the fact that max SP efficiency for a tool can be reached without ever having any experience?
How do you account for the fact that you cannot access a specialty tool to get experience without having trained it, ensuring that capability came before practice?

Essentially what I'm highlighting here is the fact that since SP and activities related to that SP are not mutually dependent, statements about SP coming "just in time" are really ignorant of how training works. Further those statements make a completely unjustifiable series of assumptions about personal learning curves in relation to training time on top of assuming them all equal.


I do not have "official proof" but only the proofs from my experience. Throughout history of eve there were not too many players which you could call "overskilled for their sp" ie the ones whose learning capabilities were much higher than sp limits. I estimate their numbers to be not more then couple of percent of total player base. Of course, it is in human nature to always ask for more, so we have plenty of people who want to get something but when they actually get it they have no idea how to use it properly. I would say that majority of players nowadays are casual players and their sp and abilities are in line at best. I`d dare to say that capabilities of huge part of player base are actually behind their sp limits. Which still does not mean there are no "overskilled" players in the game, but that is too small % to risk with some unprecedented change like this.

SP efficiency for a tool can be reached even without having any experience is something which can help you have wider experience in the game. If you plan to switch career or just want to have new experiences now and then you can easily prepare yourself in advance. I do not see that as a side effect.

Practice and knowledge come with time. Both in life and eve, they are not just simple wide line of knowledge but specializations and can be considered more as "upgraded" knowledge. By having basic knowledge you can estimate what is needed for "advanced" levels and perfect it with more practice. Ie if you have knowledge and experience of flying certain class of ships you can estimate behavior and capabilities of advanced ships as well. But if you do not have the basic knowledge, having sp does not mean you will be able to utilize or be more efficient with advanced ones.

Tyberius Franklin wrote:

No, it goes beyond semantics. It goes into determining if those aspects changed alter the game for the good or the bad. There is a lot of assumption to the bad, but little justification beyond "Anything besides SP over time per character is bad because we say so."


As I already mentioned, I wrote more than couple of WOTs with plenty of side effects which have crossed my mind. There are also a lot of contribution from other players. But it is mostly in the first 100 pages, so if you really want to see what other players think about it I suggest you start over the thread from the page 1. It will take time and will probably be waste of time since all discussions and useless spam/trolling is between pro and con side without any feedback from CCP.

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5958 - 2015-12-03 21:21:46 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

"Anything besides SP over time per character is bad because we say so."


NO that's not how it works - SP over Time per Character is how it works NOW.

if you support this change to TSP then the onus is on you to tell us how you "think" it will be better. And then ..... we get to tell you why we "think" your assumptions of how this change will affect the game are either right or wrong.
We will either be in agreement, against or suggest an alternative - we do not have say anything about the existing system, we know how that works, we just have to say how we think the proposed change will affect the game.

You could make a numbered list of "Number 1 - I think TSP will be better for the game because" - and we can reply to your assumptions one point at time to avoid troll-rambling or irrelevant anecdotes.
Don ZOLA
Omniscient Order
#5959 - 2015-12-03 21:22:44 UTC
A Ingus wrote:
[
Well here is one that is waiting for his last account out of 4 former accounts to time out in January. And I doubt I am alone in this. So you are wrong. Still a customer, but willing to stop being one and not come back if this floated idea gets implemented.


When I canceled mine`s I wrote TSP as a comment for canceling them, as we obviously need new channels for communication with CCP as they do not care to feedback here :|

There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5960 - 2015-12-03 21:30:18 UTC
A Ingus wrote:
Buying characters is not the only way to get sp. Paid time in a character is the only way to get sp. Buying a character through the bazaar was a compromise CCP had to make to kill off RMT of characters, and the resulting account and identity/credit card ripoffs which caused CCP much headache. What the person is buying is somebodys paid time with a character.
No one claimed buying characters wasthe oonly way to get SP, though as has been demonstrated time and time again yes, buying characters is a way to buy SP because the SP is part of the character. Specifically it's the part that everyone is after. If you want to go by the logic that the origin of all SP is time fine, just realize that's still the case with the suggestion, thus there is no difference in that fact and thus no argument against it for stating it.

This suggestion still has you buying someone's time.

Further, no, CCP didn't have to do anything to address the RMT. They chose to do so. That choice changed the strict adherence to the dynamic of sub length = SP.

A Ingus wrote:
What makes TSP different is that individual characters will no longer gain sp through the same method. Some will gain more relative sp through an expenditure of rl money. All characters will no longer be created equal, equal through sp accumulation method.
That's a statement of fact, not a statement of a problem. The issue present in opposing the op is that there still hasn't been any expression of reason for the time only dynamic to be maintained, just the notation that it isn't on a per character basis.

So again, why is that a problem?

A Ingus wrote:
This is more than a crack, more like a fissure, in the foundation of how characters accumulate sp. It is one step toward all the other clones on the market atm. The unique aspect of eve character development will be lost. At that point it will not take much more to just junk the whole sp system and convert to an xp system.
No, the way characters accumulate SP is not being changed. In fact all traded SP very literally comes from the same method of training that has been in the game since day 1. The only difference is the ability to exchange. To the idea of there not being much more before conversion to an XP system, I guess if you mean to suggest that actually decoupling available SP from subs and converting it to specific activities, and due to that likely needing some actual fundamental reworks is "not taking much" then sure. But that said I'm not sure anyone rational would think of a total rework as "not much."

A Ingus wrote:
As for character history and the bazaar, there are other ways CCP could address that. And name changes the same. But apparently CCP does not see the same $ in other routes. So here we are with destroying the uniqueness and for some or many the soul of this game in some hail mary pass to getting more subs. Subs that will no longer be created equal. Good luck with that selling point.
No, we're not destroying uniqueness. Some of you are mis-characterizing it as that, yes. The thing is the change still results in a very unique system that literally maintains every function we've had till now but through a new function eliminates some barriers.