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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Kilian Katar
Unknown Enterprises
#561 - 2015-10-15 18:43:04 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kilian Katar wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

FFS, read the Dev Blog and engage the brain people.



No **** sherlock, but when you extract that SP you can apply it anywhere so its worth is actually far more than when it is hard wired in some characters head. ALSO as an item in game, like plex it could be destroyed so CCP is not only allowing the destruction of money via plex, but also the destruction of skillpoints. (let alone the skill points that vanish into thin air when applied to characters not on the minimum threshhold)


When a PLEX is destroyed no money is destroyed.

As for the rest, so what? Yes SP packets will be more valuable given they can be applied anywhere. Don't care.


"engage brain please" where does plex come from, it comes from real money purchase, when that item is destroyed rather than used which hundreds have been, the money is effectively destroyed (players get little to no return on the purchase), the only one benefiting is CCP, which will be the case here too.[/quote]

It is no longer money when it is a PLEX. Roll [/quote]

It may not be technically money, but it still holds real money value, its worth being 30 days of game time, and based on how much ccp sells plex for. Every plex in game bar those given at the alliance tournament is purchased by someone for real world currency, if it is destroyed, and not used it only benefits CCP, much as with these items, If destroyed or used on a character of higher SP because they are made as you also said, from SP of other players, will be SP destroyed from the game. Something CCP recently removed when they removed the clone upgrades and now only happens when you lose a T3 cruiser.
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
#562 - 2015-10-15 18:43:47 UTC
I usually don´t complain on the forum, but this is a very bad idea. Do not want.
Josef Kennet
Deep Space Conquerors
Goonswarm Federation
#563 - 2015-10-15 18:43:48 UTC
NO

Any SP trade between characters is P2W:
- Create ___ (insert number) accounts
- Train then for ___ (insert time frame)
- Sell SP to your Main
Its basically direct plex to sp convertation with some time delay...

Ideas:
- Ingame\web char bazar with filters etc
- When you buy character you enter new name for it and corp history consist only from 1 NPC corp
- Increase fee for character transfer
About SP:
- SP Remapping may work only within character
Eternal Bob
Doomheim
#564 - 2015-10-15 18:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternal Bob
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
This means from now on no matter what decision you make in the game it has no consequence any more? Just buy some more SP to get all the ships you want to fly, without any effort.


Tell me all about the effort needed to gain skill points currently.

Biomassing to free a char slot.
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#565 - 2015-10-15 18:44:43 UTC
RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER

RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER


Difference?

CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.

Disagree? Why?
Vrarrg
Doomheim
#566 - 2015-10-15 18:45:04 UTC
No this is a horrible idea, if you are really hurting for money then listen to what we have been saying and get those things done. Instead of trying to make the game P2W or even F2P. There have been several good ideas over the past few years you guys pass up or don't even care about. This is a whole new low for CCP to reach.
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#567 - 2015-10-15 18:45:14 UTC
I think that saying that this is for newer players is one of two things, 1) a bold faced lie or 2) a complete lack of understanding of EVE by CCP.

Honestly, how can CCP truly believe that this would help new players. If a new player falls for this, then that player now misses out on the whole learning experience. they don't learn why Core Skills are core, they don't spent time in T1 hulls that teach the basics, they don't get to feel like they achieved anything special when they get that T2.

These pilots will also be, right from the start, conditioned that you have to buy PLEX to achieve your goals. Earning it through time and effort will be the poor mans way, and so long as you have money to spare, EVE will offer you anything. Then when these new players get to feeling like they can do it all, after only a week or so, they then get to meet the big bad wolves who have been here for years, and loose it all.

That does nothing to build a new play, but rather makes them think that even with using real money, they have no chance to catch up, when in reality, a 3 day old pilot with a rifter can be a solid pilot in a fleet. We all to often like to make it seem like bigger and better are the only way to win the day, but not that long ago, there where hordes of T1 frigates plowing through this game, owning all they came across.

What truly is key for new players is not skills, nor wallet size, but rather those they meet and choose to fly with. If new player experience is really what is the key point here, then make it so that new players can find groups easier, find mentors, and learn how to play the game within the safety of a team. Be it 5 guys of 5 thousand, it matters little so long as the new pilot gets training from experienced pilots who want to see them grow into long standing Eve players.

If CCP really wants to help new players, finding a way to easily and in some aspect safely find a corp/alliance to join would be a good start, a way that is intrinsic and easy to find, rather than buried under obscurity.
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
ORPHANS OF EVE
#568 - 2015-10-15 18:45:26 UTC
Your intention is both inefficient and inelegant.

What I surmise from the whole post is that you want to give newer players the ability to progress faster, and their choice in this is still affected by the knowledge of the game----much like buying a character on the bazaar, increasing the skillpoints on your own character is only as useful as your game experience and knowledge makes it. Ignorant people spending money on characters and skills meet their own hubris.

If you want to place greater adaptability and an ISK value on skillpoints that is more generic and useful than the skillpoints proffered via the character bazaar, make SP accrue over time (similar to DUST, and an idea that has been around for years) as a resource that can be sold in units on the market for ISK. This has it's own negative impacts however, which necessitates mechanics to prevent the abuse, but that's always a part of EVE change.

What I dislike most about the suggested process and the diminishing returns is:

  1. Making players buy Aurum to buy an item to buy skills (more $ generation for CCP)
  2. You're rewarding newer players more than presumably loyal players who have spent years playing the game and accruing skillpoints
  3. It reminds me of boosting in WoW where new players don't like being level 1 and get boosts to quickly get max level to where the real gaming is----EVE is NOT that type of game, and offering loyal players a smaller carrot than a new player is a punishment for being old.


What I cannot shake is that this new item/mechanic was conceptualized to solve [what I and many assume to be] the population problem in EVE. Is CCP worried about new players failing to remain loyal players/are they quitting and not coming back after the first month? Is CCP worried about general population decline?

If you want to justify this change, I ask you to please publish statistics on skill points of current players.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#569 - 2015-10-15 18:45:29 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:

Querns wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Querns wrote:
They are pretty much forced to do this, honestly.

Otherwise, everyone in eve would generate bastard farms whose only purpose is funneling SP to their main character.

They are not forced to to this. CCP instead should be coerced to develop proper, engaging and awesome game content that makes people want to stick around (see a couple of my suggestions for example *openly brags about it*). This is not that content, this is nothing but yet another money grab that requires no real effort or development cost from CCP to actually improve the game.

Developer time is not fungible, and CCP is able to work on multiple things at once to no ill effect. This argument comes up time and time again any time something even remotely unpalatable arrives and I'm tired of hearing it.


This isn't the argument you think it is, at all. He says that this takes no virtually devtime, so the idea that he is complaining about wasted dev time is ridiculous. He is saying that the fix for CCP's cash woes is devtime on content, not bandaids on game mechanics.

Read what was said next time, and not what you wanted to hear.

Actually, it's perfectly applicable. He's arguing that Feature X was released and that it is an outrage because Feature Y should have been released instead. That falls foul of the "developer time is perfectly fungible and CCP has no ability to multitask" trap, even with the admission that Feature X was "easy" to do.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#570 - 2015-10-15 18:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Ok, so I will take this suggestion seriously for a second and try and offer some constructive feedback.

First of all you do realise this will flood the market with SP as there are so many people with SP spent on skills that are useless to them.

So basically what this will be is an instant level up to 80mil SP; 80mil of unallocated SP. So your making the same mistake that Blizzard made when it effectively removed a good chunk of the starter experience and progressed everyone straight to level 80.

SP currently has a value which is determined by the amount of time it takes to accumulate, this is valued highly as the method by which it accrues can not be modified by play time or grinding and is relatively unchangeable across all characters, and is only marginally modified by implants. So by allowing SP to be traded on the market you will obviously massively reduce the value of SP.

This has many consequences, there are too many for me to detail here, but to put it simply in one fell swoop will destroy what has been a fundamental part of the game for the last 12 years. You will also ruin all of the hard work and good progress CCP have been putting in over the last couple of years to drive eve to be at the cutting edge of MMORPGs.

Why do you want to ruin the starter experience for new players by allowing them to skip through it anyway? The hard fix is to implement a more enjoyable starting experience which I can see you are struggling with and is a difficult task, but this quick fix solution which you suggest is definitely not the way forward. Unfortunately the only way is to carry on with what you have been doing so excellently in the last few years and put in the hard work to make eve a fundamentally better game.

So in essence this idea is one of the worse I've ever seen grace a devblog. I'd even be more inclined towards allowing people to completely wipe their characters name and history when doing a character transfer (with a good chunk of SP lost in the process). This would more elegantly solve the problems you list in the devblog, and most importantly would not devalue SP.
Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
#571 - 2015-10-15 18:45:42 UTC
Free to play by 2017

Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.
drunklies
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#572 - 2015-10-15 18:45:59 UTC
WaypointExit wrote:
As a new player, I really like this "idea". After making a mess of the training of my original "main" because I was clueless, I trained some other characters with really focused training plans. The problem is I have joined a corp whose doctrines don't match my brilliant focused training plan. I can fly drone battleships decently, but have 0 missile skills. Well the corp I joined just decided to introduce a missile doctrine. I would love to be able to take some the the proceeds from my industry alt and make this character effective at missiles. I don't necessarily want to buy a character. I like my characters. I see this as an option that let's me keep my sculpted character, yet make myself useful faster. I have the money to buy a character but I didn't like the the thought of using a character I didn't create. It's a bit crazy since it's all pretend, but it just felt strange and not me in some odd way. With this option I can remain my virtual self and be helpful immediately to my new corp. It won't make me a better pilot or give me knowledge about how to fly missile boats, so if I foolishly buy and fly something out of my depth it will just be a donation to a more skilled pilots efficiency rating. I think this proposal is a more flexible variation of buying a character. I could understand better the anger if the option to buy a character did not already exist. All the skill points that are bought in this manner were earned in the same manner as those earned by characters for sell in the character bazaar. This is just more options on how to sell and make use of that investment imo.


Welcome to Eve, your choices have meaning.

Every damn player has a borked to hell first toon with crap all over the place.

Doesn't mean you should be able to crush 6 characters worth of sp and force feed it into the one.
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS
Rising Darkness
#573 - 2015-10-15 18:46:15 UTC
FANTASTIC IDEA CCP!

Please implement as soon as practical!
This is just awesome!

An elegant solution to tons of crappy alts -- especially those of us with millions of now unnecessary skill points in science

Aker
Monasucks
BLACK SQUADRON.
Get Off My Lawn
#574 - 2015-10-15 18:46:26 UTC
Skinzee wrote:
Monasucks wrote:


200€ for 145 SP, which are 6 years and several billion isk - so let's say ~ 1500€ in subscription alone + at least 10.000€ in ISK (if done the math converted back over PLEX price to RL money )

So spend ~12000€ not 100.

Thats a big difference because EVE is build by patiences and time and the social structure that develops in your corp and alliances etc.

You SIR are still in an n00b corp. Guess if you have tomorrow that 145m SP ? I and many other I know would not except you in that corps, for the next few years.




Who taught you maths? Its terrible...

6years = 72months x £9.99 = £719.28... NOT 10.000€

Ingame ISK is irrelevant as you cannot sell ISK with character transfer/character bazaar.

I would of thought you would of known that considering your in a 'big' alliance... It would be a shame I wouldnt be accepted into your corp :'( The feels... The feels are deep :(


I'm not bad at math - don't forget you need to buy all those skills... imps etc. thats probably the value in € you have to spend

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#575 - 2015-10-15 18:46:52 UTC
Tiranius Avetus wrote:
So you will sell time (the most valuable resource in EVE) for money.
******** idea...

Do they not have the Character Bazaar where you live?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Devin Wallace
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#576 - 2015-10-15 18:47:29 UTC
Skinzee wrote:
RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER

RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER


Difference?

CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.

Disagree? Why?


as I said earlier, creating a 100 mil SP character from scratch will either consist of two realities:

1. it will cost $20,000

or

2. it will be impossible because of a limitation of available packets

I hope I don't meet the worm that creates the holes,  must be immortal.
Veishe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#577 - 2015-10-15 18:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Veishe
Not Joke? Disgusting idea.


One of learned skill has one history. CCP bros really don't understand what makes EVE char unique.
Mai Ling Ravencroft
Duragon Pioneer Group
#578 - 2015-10-15 18:47:54 UTC
Skinzee wrote:
RL MONEY => PLEX => CHARACTER BAZAAR => 100M SP CHARACTER

RL MONEY => AUR => SKILLPOINT BOOST => 100M SP CHARACTER


Difference?

CHARACTERS BIRTH DATE
NO BAD CHARACTER HISTORY FOR SKILLPOINT BOOSTED CHARACTER.

Disagree? Why?


The difference is that most new players have no clue the Bazaar exists, which means they have to play for a while, learn the basics and either find a group or stumble on it over time. Which means that they have a bit more skill than a first day pilot, with a fat wallet and no clue.
Cifelli
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#579 - 2015-10-15 18:48:06 UTC
Nergart wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
For people quitting in protest I remind them that Operation Magic School Bus does accept donations to help out the new players. Yes, this is a 'can I haz' post but it is one where the material will be put to good use, not just lining a wallet or hanger. Contract to me if you wish to donate.

m



what new players?

also this does kind of prove my point about the individuals being part of the CSM for their own gains


100% agree

The thing that made eve fun and unique is that it was a very unforgiving game and had the famed steepest learning curve but once you survive it and learn the game and how things work etc it is incredibly fun. Look at every other MMO and u wont find one that has people who have played for literally decades.

I get why you want to make this game more appealing to new people as the older the game gets the more intimidating it is for new people but most have went through it and you enjoy eve thats why you have so many veteran players, CCP has ignored the past year or so the community telling it that it doesnt like potential changes and the attitude has been "we know best so its happening" Active players are dropping, the community is telling you that the game is destroying its self and still you continue to move towards Pay to win to get a quick buck from new people to the game who will pay 30 quid and then get bored and leave.

What would you rather have quick 30 dollars from someone who will get bored and leave or retain your player base who have played for years (and payed and will continue to pay)?

people are leaving in record numbers and there will come a point where ships skins etc wont be enough to hide an income loss for ccp when there is no oneplaying...
Morphisat
Millard Innovation Inc
#580 - 2015-10-15 18:51:19 UTC
Cifelli wrote:


What would you rather have quick 30 dollars from someone who will get bored and leave or retain your player base who have played for years (and payed and will continue to pay)?

people are leaving in record numbers and there will come a point where ships skins etc wont be enough to hide an income loss for ccp when there is no oneplaying...


My guess at the moment is that they rather want the quick 30 quid. A lot of old players use isk to pay for their sub.