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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Doddy
Excidium.
#5401 - 2015-11-05 20:23:20 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source


You do understand that skilling a character is an investment of money while people buying sp with isk are investing time right? Roll


The reason he's giving for all his arguments is based around how hes twisted this statement,


This is the fundamental issue. All the people against TSPs are basically supporting the pay to win Eve has had since it started, mainly because they already paid thier money and don't want other people to have the opportunity to catch up.

Player A doesn't really play Eve any more, but he is rich so he keeps his sub running nayway and logs in now and again to modify his skill queue.

Player B loves Eve and plays it constantly when he can afford the sub, but sadly rl money problems means he can only sub for 3 months in the year.

Player A will finish the year with 4 times the SP that Player B does, despite actually playing the game for far less time, soley because he has given CCP 4 times as much money.

This is pay to win, at least so much as there is any "win" in Eve.

The fact CCP is daring to give people more leeway on when they can actually pay is of course to be attacked by those who are currently enjoying their pay to win advantage and are worried others might now spend money to errode it, even though under this system many of the people catching up with TSPs will need to pay more than 10 times as much rl money to CCP as they paid for thier SP.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5402 - 2015-11-05 20:25:11 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Just imagine how this feature will look to a new player who is not familiar with EVE.

It will lock a bit similar to what typical free2play titles are offering. Slow SP progress and you can accumulate currency ingame for which you then can buy ships or invest them in more SP. It will appear as if the slow accumulation of SP is on purpose so you actually HAVE to spend real money to get to your Battleship in an acceptable time, which is obviously the goal for every player poisoned with the expectation of a linear progression from other MMOs.

In other words it will appear as a seriously overpriced free2play paywall in a game that is NOT free2play!

They will just shake their heads about the greed of the developer without ever understanding the background of the system and simply quit.

This is my serious concern and I think this has to be addressed.


Exactly ...(get ready for replies of but it's not F2P completely missing the point that for new players and potential future customers, perception trumps reality)


So you are saying we shouldn't do it because it exposes the reality? We should just keep being dishonest about eves ptw nature in the hope of tricking in more new players? i mean i guess you are right but I not sure it is very moral ....
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5403 - 2015-11-05 20:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source


You do understand that skilling a character is an investment of money while people buying sp with isk are investing time right? Roll


The reason he's giving for all his arguments is based around how hes twisted this statement,


This is the fundamental issue. All the people against TSPs are basically supporting the pay to win Eve has had since it started, mainly because they already paid thier money and don't want other people to have the opportunity to catch up.

Player A doesn't really play Eve any more, but he is rich so he keeps his sub running nayway and logs in now and again to modify his skill queue.

Player B loves Eve and plays it constantly when he can afford the sub, but sadly rl money problems means he can only sub for 3 months in the year.

Player A will finish the year with 4 times the SP that Player B does, despite actually playing the game for far less time, soley because he has given CCP 4 times as much money.

This is pay to win, at least so much as there is any "win" in Eve.

The fact CCP is daring to give people more leeway on when they can actually pay is of course to be attacked by those who are currently enjoying their pay to win advantage and are worried others might now spend money to errode it, even though under this system many of the people catching up with TSPs will need to pay more than 10 times as much rl money to CCP as they paid for thier SP.

So with your theory he pays for skillpoints to catch up then when he's done so still can't play because he's spent his only 3 months playtime on catchup and now goes play something else instead !!!

There is no win in eve, you set yourself goals to reach, each one that you reach takes you on the next journey.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5404 - 2015-11-05 20:30:28 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
many quotes.


yay, not getting to train what they want and still be behind, plus have to worry about being podded, great. Assuming they want to retain control over thier own skill queue why is it such a jump from a player spending 100 mil on a set of +4s to spending 150, 200 or whatever on a tsp? At least the TSP will not promote risk aversion like the implants do. if CCP turned around and said they were going to do it in 100k sp chunks would your opposition suddenly disappear because they would be more affordable? I am going to guess not.

Why would it lead to dissatisfaction? You haven't explained why any normal person would feel this way. Are people going to go, "oh no, if I earn another 50 mil isk i will be able to fly that battleship earlier, how terrible i must quit"? How is that less aspirational than "oh well if i don't bother logging on my skill is still training"? I really don't get what you think the psychology of gamers is. Where does not having rl money come into it where it doesn't already in every other aspect in eve? It is no different from having to save up for that faction BB they are desperate to fly, you think everyone who can't just drop a plex to get what they want quit the game?

Only you are saying they are selling sp with cash. Sp will be sold for cash no more than every other thing in the game that can be sold for isk. What is being sold for cash is the mechanism, and that will be bought by people looking to make isk, not people looking to buy sp. It is exactly the same as plex, the only difference it is not fixed in time. If I bought a tsp with cash right now it would have way less effect than if i had used a plex to sub that account 2 months ago. It will also have less affect than the plex I will apply on that account next month, assuming i remember to set a skill queue. Is it really so important that people should be rewarded for paying ccp on a monthly basis rather than more intermittently?

I don't have an issue with giving new players more sp or adjusting the requirements for skills etc, but why screw over older players? Skills have constant diminishing returns, giving the older players the same sp would do no harm at all. For most ships meaningful skill use is only around 30mil sp. But you are so fixated on total sp numbers you probably don't get that.


Simple, have learning implants act like cerebral accelarators and remain after podding, all other implants remain the same, now you have accelerated learning that's scales downwards in an affordable way which TSPs do not and so all income brackets should be able to afford some form of them. It's not 100% perfect but it offers a lot more options than the 2 options of spend a ton of isk(plex) or miss out completely.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5405 - 2015-11-05 20:36:47 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Just imagine how this feature will look to a new player who is not familiar with EVE.

It will lock a bit similar to what typical free2play titles are offering. Slow SP progress and you can accumulate currency ingame for which you then can buy ships or invest them in more SP. It will appear as if the slow accumulation of SP is on purpose so you actually HAVE to spend real money to get to your Battleship in an acceptable time, which is obviously the goal for every player poisoned with the expectation of a linear progression from other MMOs.

In other words it will appear as a seriously overpriced free2play paywall in a game that is NOT free2play!

They will just shake their heads about the greed of the developer without ever understanding the background of the system and simply quit.

This is my serious concern and I think this has to be addressed.


Exactly ...(get ready for replies of but it's not F2P completely missing the point that for new players and potential future customers, perception trumps reality)


So you are saying we shouldn't do it because it exposes the reality? We should just keep being dishonest about eves ptw nature in the hope of tricking in more new players? i mean i guess you are right but I not sure it is very moral ....


Good grief have you literally any idea why new/potential customer's perceptions are important when marketing your product... handy hint : there won't always be an EvEO poster around to correct potential customer's misconceptions about EvE when they are considering buying their first account. What they think about EvE often matters more than the subtle explanation of the reality.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5406 - 2015-11-05 20:41:38 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Stalking Mantis wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. "

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source


You do understand that skilling a character is an investment of money while people buying sp with isk are investing time right? Roll


The reason he's giving for all his arguments is based around how hes twisted this statement,


This is the fundamental issue. All the people against TSPs are basically supporting the pay to win Eve has had since it started, mainly because they already paid thier money and don't want other people to have the opportunity to catch up.

Player A doesn't really play Eve any more, but he is rich so he keeps his sub running nayway and logs in now and again to modify his skill queue.

Player B loves Eve and plays it constantly when he can afford the sub, but sadly rl money problems means he can only sub for 3 months in the year.

Player A will finish the year with 4 times the SP that Player B does, despite actually playing the game for far less time, soley because he has given CCP 4 times as much money.

This is pay to win, at least so much as there is any "win" in Eve.

The fact CCP is daring to give people more leeway on when they can actually pay is of course to be attacked by those who are currently enjoying their pay to win advantage and are worried others might now spend money to errode it, even though under this system many of the people catching up with TSPs will need to pay more than 10 times as much rl money to CCP as they paid for thier SP.

So with your theory he pays for skillpoints to catch up then when he's done so still can't play because he's spent his only 3 months playtime on catchup and now goes play something else instead !!!

There is no win in eve, you set yourself goals to reach, each one that you reach takes you on the next journey.


Not really, I mean peoples circumstances change. He might be able to pay now what he could not pay last month, but simply because his cashflow was irregular he is down 1.5 mil sp whatever he does. Or simply 3 months has got him to the stage where he can afford to plex his account and sometimes TSP to regain some of what he lost.

Goals in eve are gameplay related, other than buying a skill book the training system of eve is completely unrelated to game play, it is entirley down to CCP getting $.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5407 - 2015-11-05 20:50:41 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Goals in eve are gameplay related, other than buying a skill book the training system of eve is completely unrelated to game play, it is entirley down to CCP getting $.

Seriously, unrelated really - Its the skill system that enables everything you do in eve from mining all the way up. Without the skill system you would still be stuck in your rookie ship / frigate.

Your goals are set by the skill system, using evemon or similar you stick what ship you want to fly into it set all secondaries into it then transfer to your training queue. When completed your move on to your next goal - All skill system related. So someone following your advice would still be roaming round in a frigate with a mining lazor stuck to it ....... and we wonder why the pvp is going down the crapper.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5408 - 2015-11-05 20:51:01 UTC
Doddy wrote:

How do you even come to that conclusion, you just devolve into insults when you don't have any answers? Yo are the one who used a terrible example, ont my fault. If anyone wants to buy an advantage in market training they can already buy it, TSP will make no difference whatsoever.

- Agreed - TSP will make no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Eves training system is and always has been associated to subscription, not playing the game. No amount of "power levelling" gets you ahead in game play. All it can do is catch people up on the money other people have put into thier subscription. You seem just to be buthurt that people starting to pay now will be able to catch up with what you already bought. And why shouldn't they?

- Agreed - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription

I hope you can grasp the fact that TSP applies to newbies AND the vets. The players they are trying to catch up can pay to stay ahead - In this case as well

- TSP makes no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Why should somebody who has spent $5k dollars in subs over the years have an in game advantage becaus eof how much they spent? isn't that just pay to win? how can you on one hand moan about pay to win and on the other ignore the massive pay to win advantage every single player in game has over anyone starting out or returning to the game after a break? Its like you don't understand the basic concept of eve.

- Again - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription:

- Again - This applies to newbies AND the vets alike. The newbies paying to catch up are trying to catch up with players that can pay to stay ahead (Premium financial Model) .

- Again - TSP will make no difference so there is no need to include it



EVE uses a subscription based financial model - How's that's for a basic concept of EVE
Doddy
Excidium.
#5409 - 2015-11-05 20:57:06 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Just imagine how this feature will look to a new player who is not familiar with EVE.

It will lock a bit similar to what typical free2play titles are offering. Slow SP progress and you can accumulate currency ingame for which you then can buy ships or invest them in more SP. It will appear as if the slow accumulation of SP is on purpose so you actually HAVE to spend real money to get to your Battleship in an acceptable time, which is obviously the goal for every player poisoned with the expectation of a linear progression from other MMOs.

In other words it will appear as a seriously overpriced free2play paywall in a game that is NOT free2play!

They will just shake their heads about the greed of the developer without ever understanding the background of the system and simply quit.

This is my serious concern and I think this has to be addressed.


Exactly ...(get ready for replies of but it's not F2P completely missing the point that for new players and potential future customers, perception trumps reality)


So you are saying we shouldn't do it because it exposes the reality? We should just keep being dishonest about eves ptw nature in the hope of tricking in more new players? i mean i guess you are right but I not sure it is very moral ....


Good grief have you literally any idea why new/potential customer's perceptions are important when marketing your product... handy hint : there won't always be an EvEO poster around to correct potential customer's misconceptions about EvE when they are considering buying their first account. What they think about EvE often matters more than the subtle explanation of the reality.


But in what way would you be correcting them? As it stands any new player is at a disadvantage because other players have poured money into the game. It is not a misconception. How you think adding a mechanism which could allow them to catch up whether with rl or in game currency is in any way more of a deterrent i have no idea.

Some players will think, oh well I am rich so I can catch up, though its not very fair that diminishing returns mean i have to pay much more than all those angry guys on the forums.

Some players will think, well at least there is a way for me to use my in game talents to catch up on all those pay to win angry guys on the forums.

Some players will think, gee I can never catch up with these angry guys who have been pumping money into the game for years since I am neither rich nor have loads of free time to grind in game, but guess what, I couldn't catch up if there was no such mechanism and would have quit anyway, so you are wasting your time.

Then there are still more players who just want to play the game, and don't care about "being behind".

Quite where these still other players who don't care about being way behind all the others who have pumped money into the game for years, but are really put off by the possibility of them regaining some of that loss come from i have no idea. Who are these people? Whoever they are there is no reason to think they outnumber these others types of potential player.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5410 - 2015-11-05 21:02:29 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:

How do you even come to that conclusion, you just devolve into insults when you don't have any answers? Yo are the one who used a terrible example, ont my fault. If anyone wants to buy an advantage in market training they can already buy it, TSP will make no difference whatsoever.

- Agreed - TSP will make no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Eves training system is and always has been associated to subscription, not playing the game. No amount of "power levelling" gets you ahead in game play. All it can do is catch people up on the money other people have put into thier subscription. You seem just to be buthurt that people starting to pay now will be able to catch up with what you already bought. And why shouldn't they?

- Agreed - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription

I hope you can grasp the fact that TSP applies to newbies AND the vets. The players they are trying to catch up can pay to stay ahead - In this case as well

- TSP makes no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Why should somebody who has spent $5k dollars in subs over the years have an in game advantage becaus eof how much they spent? isn't that just pay to win? how can you on one hand moan about pay to win and on the other ignore the massive pay to win advantage every single player in game has over anyone starting out or returning to the game after a break? Its like you don't understand the basic concept of eve.

- Again - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription:

- Again - This applies to newbies AND the vets alike. The newbies paying to catch up are trying to catch up with players that can pay to stay ahead (Premium financial Model) .

- Again - TSP will make no difference so there is no need to include it



EVE uses a subscription based financial model - How's that's for a basic concept of EVE




You come out with some really weird statements. TSP will not effect market manipulation so there is no need to include it? Wtf.

Diminishing returns means the new players actaully will catch up with older players up until 80 mil sp. All CCP needs to make it comletely fair all round is a cap at the point of maximum possible sp for someone who started back in 2003. Anything other than that and players are being rewarded for having given CCp more money.

Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied soley to subscription, it is eves biggest and most unfair flaw.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5411 - 2015-11-05 21:13:46 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:

How do you even come to that conclusion, you just devolve into insults when you don't have any answers? Yo are the one who used a terrible example, ont my fault. If anyone wants to buy an advantage in market training they can already buy it, TSP will make no difference whatsoever.

- Agreed - TSP will make no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Eves training system is and always has been associated to subscription, not playing the game. No amount of "power levelling" gets you ahead in game play. All it can do is catch people up on the money other people have put into thier subscription. You seem just to be buthurt that people starting to pay now will be able to catch up with what you already bought. And why shouldn't they?

- Agreed - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription

I hope you can grasp the fact that TSP applies to newbies AND the vets. The players they are trying to catch up can pay to stay ahead - In this case as well

- TSP makes no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Why should somebody who has spent $5k dollars in subs over the years have an in game advantage becaus eof how much they spent? isn't that just pay to win? how can you on one hand moan about pay to win and on the other ignore the massive pay to win advantage every single player in game has over anyone starting out or returning to the game after a break? Its like you don't understand the basic concept of eve.

- Again - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription:

- Again - This applies to newbies AND the vets alike. The newbies paying to catch up are trying to catch up with players that can pay to stay ahead (Premium financial Model) .

- Again - TSP will make no difference so there is no need to include it



EVE uses a subscription based financial model - How's that's for a basic concept of EVE



You come out with some really weird statements. TSP will not effect market manipulation so there is no need to include it? Wtf.

I included your quote - nothing about market manipulation there just buying TRAINING - Did you misspell trading?

anyway I was talking about buying SP to quickly create a perfect market trader in days instead of months not manipulating markets

Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5412 - 2015-11-05 21:15:31 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:

How do you even come to that conclusion, you just devolve into insults when you don't have any answers? Yo are the one who used a terrible example, ont my fault. If anyone wants to buy an advantage in market training they can already buy it, TSP will make no difference whatsoever.

- Agreed - TSP will make no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Eves training system is and always has been associated to subscription, not playing the game. No amount of "power levelling" gets you ahead in game play. All it can do is catch people up on the money other people have put into thier subscription. You seem just to be buthurt that people starting to pay now will be able to catch up with what you already bought. And why shouldn't they?

- Agreed - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription

I hope you can grasp the fact that TSP applies to newbies AND the vets. The players they are trying to catch up can pay to stay ahead - In this case as well

- TSP makes no difference in the game so there is no need to include it

Quote:

Why should somebody who has spent $5k dollars in subs over the years have an in game advantage becaus eof how much they spent? isn't that just pay to win? how can you on one hand moan about pay to win and on the other ignore the massive pay to win advantage every single player in game has over anyone starting out or returning to the game after a break? Its like you don't understand the basic concept of eve.

- Again - EVE is a subscription based game and training is tied to subscription:

- Again - This applies to newbies AND the vets alike. The newbies paying to catch up are trying to catch up with players that can pay to stay ahead (Premium financial Model) .

- Again - TSP will make no difference so there is no need to include it



EVE uses a subscription based financial model - How's that's for a basic concept of EVE




You come out with some really weird statements. TSP will not effect market manipulation so there is no need to include it? Wtf.

Diminishing returns means the new players actaully will catch up with older players up until 80 mil sp. All CCP needs to make it comletely fair all round is a cap at the point of maximum possible sp for someone who started back in 2003. Anything other than that and players are being rewarded for having given CCp more money.

Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied soley to subscription, it is eves biggest and most unfair flaw.

If you look at it like that then its also the only game where you progress without even lifting a finger to play, all other MMO's you only advance whilst playing so if you can only play 3 months of the year your never going to level a character near cap, is that wrong now also.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#5413 - 2015-11-05 21:31:32 UTC
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5414 - 2015-11-05 21:37:53 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
The hypocrisy of some people here is staggering, if there is no difference between advancing using any current in game / bazaar methods, the end goal is to help all including the new players then its quite simple.

To remove it from internal manipulation from anyone in game.

CCP to sell it for aurum in the store so current people can buy with isk and to be sold on the website where the plex are sold so that anyone with cash or new players that want to advance but have no in game currency. It will still have its depreciation scale.

Anyone can look at it how they like whether it be pay2progress or pay2win. If its done this way there is no downside except its another MT added, it cannot be manipulated at all , its totally accessible to all worry free.

EDIT: To any that say about CCP getting skillpoints from thin air, The mechanism to allow this to be done is from thin air as anything from the NEX store is from thin air - Its not seeded in game cannot be farm for, so by far the lesser of the 2 evils if it cannot be manipulated.
I'm confused on your logic here. You seem to suggest that CCP selling the SP directly would prevent manipulation even with it being market tradable, but the manipulation of PLEX on the in game market evidences otherwise.

The first change this actually creates is encouraging those interested in gaining SP to weigh in game isk price vs real currency price, and thus encourages real money expense for the consumer of the SP, where the current system does not. Like the Bazaar the "transfer fee" on the SP is the responsibility of the seller (though the seller may factor that into the sale price).

The second is that it removes any constraints on SP supply, making the doomsday scenarios painted by those not wanting 400mill SP characters to come into existence more likely since the price can't increase due to constrained supply.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5415 - 2015-11-05 21:42:29 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
"Eve is pretty much the only subscription based game where progression is tied solely to subscription"

I don't see it as a flaw - I think it is one of EVE's most unique features that makes EVE different from other MMO's



It also avoids spamming to improve experience stats
"Spamming" Example - In one MMO I played drinking mushroom brew over and over just because after consuming gallons of the stuff you gain 1xp in the use of potions


People forget thats its a sci fi MMO unique and Niche, You cannot compare it to other MMO's because its so different. If you want orc goblins elves knights ninja's whatever go play those, but dont try to turn something thats unique into yet another clone.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Rocker Will
Rockstar federation
#5416 - 2015-11-05 21:45:21 UTC
I heard people talking about this in Amar, I thought It was a bad idea but after reading the blog it actually sounds pretty good,

I'm Batman
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5417 - 2015-11-05 21:46:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
The hypocrisy of some people here is staggering, if there is no difference between advancing using any current in game / bazaar methods, the end goal is to help all including the new players then its quite simple.

To remove it from internal manipulation from anyone in game.

CCP to sell it for aurum in the store so current people can buy with isk and to be sold on the website where the plex are sold so that anyone with cash or new players that want to advance but have no in game currency. It will still have its depreciation scale.

Anyone can look at it how they like whether it be pay2progress or pay2win. If its done this way there is no downside except its another MT added, it cannot be manipulated at all , its totally accessible to all worry free.

EDIT: To any that say about CCP getting skillpoints from thin air, The mechanism to allow this to be done is from thin air as anything from the NEX store is from thin air - Its not seeded in game cannot be farm for, so by far the lesser of the 2 evils if it cannot be manipulated.
I'm confused on your logic here. You seem to suggest that CCP selling the SP directly would prevent manipulation even with it being market tradable, but the manipulation of PLEX on the in game market evidences otherwise.

The first change this actually creates is encouraging those interested in gaining SP to weigh in game isk price vs real currency price, and thus encourages real money expense for the consumer of the SP, where the current system does not. Like the Bazaar the "transfer fee" on the SP is the responsibility of the seller (though the seller may factor that into the sale price).

The second is that it removes any constraints on SP supply, making the doomsday scenarios painted by those not wanting 400mill SP characters to come into existence more likely since the price can't increase due to constrained supply.

I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5418 - 2015-11-05 21:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Levi Belvar wrote:
I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.
What misuse is prevented? If the consumption of SP is unchanged and the SP can be sold on the market and thus manipulated there, what's the gain? Or are you suggesting it can't be market sold? If so do you intend this to require real money?

Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP? How does this supposed depreciation, which has every new character potentially working against it, differ from the idea as proposed? If it doesn't, how is noting depreciation relevant?
Doddy
Excidium.
#5419 - 2015-11-05 22:09:36 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Goals in eve are gameplay related, other than buying a skill book the training system of eve is completely unrelated to game play, it is entirley down to CCP getting $.

Seriously, unrelated really - Its the skill system that enables everything you do in eve from mining all the way up. Without the skill system you would still be stuck in your rookie ship / frigate.

Your goals are set by the skill system, using evemon or similar you stick what ship you want to fly into it set all secondaries into it then transfer to your training queue. When completed your move on to your next goal - All skill system related. So someone following your advice would still be roaming round in a frigate with a mining lazor stuck to it ....... and we wonder why the pvp is going down the crapper.


How do you figure that? You cant play without a subscription, you would have to deliberately not train to be in such a situation, why would you do that? What you do has no effect on your skilling however, other than buying skillbooks as i said. Nothing you can do in game will give you skills if you haven't paid your sub. Being better at the game or spending more time actually playing it does not effect your skils, only how much money you have paid CCP.

On the other hand you don't need to actually play the game at all. So long as you click your skill queue and pay your sub you never need to undock. is that really your idea of "playing eve"?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5420 - 2015-11-05 22:10:54 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
I dont want it introduced ,the way above it removes anyway it can be misused, and when i said CCP to market it but directly to a player its not a marketable commodity. It will still have its depreciation scale.
What misuse is prevented? If the consumption of SP is unchanged and the SP can be sold on the market and thus manipulated there, what's the gain? Or are you suggesting it can't be market sold? If so do you intend this to require real money?

Do you feel the idea is improved by having unlimited SP? How does this supposed depreciation, which has every new character potentially working against it, differ from the idea as proposed? If it doesn't, how is noting depreciation relevant?


CCP sell direct to a player only - It cannot be traded on the market

0 – 5 million skillpoints = 500,000 unallocated skillpoints added
5 – 50 million skillpoints = 400,000 unallocated skillpoints added
50 – 80 million skillpoints = 200,000 unallocated skillpoints added
> 80 million skillpoints = 50,000 unallocated skillpoints added

Still using the above. New players get the most benefit from it, but anyone can use them higher level players still only get lower amount ...... that easier for you to follow.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”