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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Avanda Redblade
The Exiled Titans
The Commonwealth.
#5361 - 2015-11-05 07:15:06 UTC
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source

Combine the above crowd-pleasing, short-sighted statement with the psychology of a gamer who has to at least believe he has a chance of "catching up" to the best and you have a game that is dying, no matter how many pretty graphics you add.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5362 - 2015-11-05 08:01:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
The hypocrisy of some people here is staggering, if there is no difference between advancing using any current in game / bazaar methods, the end goal is to help all including the new players then its quite simple.

To remove it from internal manipulation from anyone in game.

CCP to sell it for aurum in the store so current people can buy with isk and to be sold on the website where the plex are sold so that anyone with cash or new players that want to advance but have no in game currency. It will still have its depreciation scale.

Anyone can look at it how they like whether it be pay2progress or pay2win. If its done this way there is no downside except its another MT added, it cannot be manipulated at all , its totally accessible to all worry free.

EDIT: To any that say about CCP getting skillpoints from thin air, The mechanism to allow this to be done is from thin air as anything from the NEX store is from thin air - Its not seeded in game cannot be farm for, so by far the lesser of the 2 evils if it cannot be manipulated.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#5363 - 2015-11-05 08:15:25 UTC
Avanda Redblade wrote:
Combine the above crowd-pleasing, short-sighted statement with the psychology of a gamer who has to at least believe he has a chance of "catching up" to the best and you have a game that is dying, no matter how many pretty graphics you add.

They'll never catch up, they will hit the wall at 50 mil SP. Homo walleticus don't use brain for thinking. More money for CCP? In game that has subscription? It's either, multitransactions or subscription, not both.
adding fuel to the fire:
The Benefits of a Skillpoint Economy
comparing League or World of Tanks to EvE? Milions of players to 30k average on one server? This will end well...


"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#5364 - 2015-11-05 09:44:16 UTC
Avanda Redblade wrote:
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."

CCP Hellmar
2011-10-05
Source

Combine the above crowd-pleasing, short-sighted statement with the psychology of a gamer who has to at least believe he has a chance of "catching up" to the best and you have a game that is dying, no matter how many pretty graphics you add.


It's been growing all this time, right up to the point where CCP decided to focus less on PVP.

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#5365 - 2015-11-05 09:47:19 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Avanda Redblade wrote:
Combine the above crowd-pleasing, short-sighted statement with the psychology of a gamer who has to at least believe he has a chance of "catching up" to the best and you have a game that is dying, no matter how many pretty graphics you add.

They'll never catch up, they will hit the wall at 50 mil SP. Homo walleticus don't use brain for thinking. More money for CCP? In game that has subscription? It's either, multitransactions or subscription, not both.
adding fuel to the fire:
The Benefits of a Skillpoint Economy
comparing League or World of Tanks to EvE? Milions of players to 30k average on one server? This will end well...




It's not surprising a Goon would see the benefit because it will favour large entities who take on a lot of fresh new players, they make for very good customers.

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5366 - 2015-11-05 13:00:38 UTC
Doddy wrote:

Similarly crapping on idea that will be of benefit to hundreds or thousands of players who want to clean up training mistakes, catch up with older players, make up for times they couldn't afford the sub or try new features earlier than training would allow is really dumb if you are basing it on the imagined possibility one crazy person might spend $300k on a 450 mil sp char (your 27 years trained character).


About as dumb as imagining everybody who wants to do any of the things you listed will be able to afford the time or money to do so, especially new players.


Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5367 - 2015-11-05 13:07:58 UTC
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.


General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5368 - 2015-11-05 13:24:29 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#5369 - 2015-11-05 13:37:06 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.


Is this post a joke ?
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#5370 - 2015-11-05 13:38:53 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.



as hes that old i assume he knows alot of the problems of newbies.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5371 - 2015-11-05 13:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Portmanteau wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.


Is this post a joke ?

Depends on how you perceive it. For me it's not a joke exept part of "you know".
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5372 - 2015-11-05 13:46:38 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:

as hes that old i assume he knows alot of the problems of newbies.

What are concerns of grandma about you? Does she know about that you against new change in EVE?
Doddy
Excidium.
#5373 - 2015-11-05 14:22:25 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Doddy wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
the ISK rich can pay to win just like the RL rich

I have 2 questions:
1) What is "win" mean?
2) Why you so much hate rich people?


(1) I'm not getting into the definition of pay to win - lets say - yet another & more obvious method of using RL money to gain an advantage in the game.

(2) You were the one who was concerned that paying with aurum would ""dienfranchise all the players who can't afford it in rl" just pointing out it disenfranchises ones that cannot afford it with ISK in eve as well


I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


you do know you can buy Aurum with iSK don't you ....


Sure, but why make people jump through hoops?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5374 - 2015-11-05 14:29:32 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.


Is this post a joke ?

You do have to forgive the resident troll with his less than intelligent statements, He thinks that everyone above 50 mill skillpoints was granted them from the jovian's ........ Only the new batch of new players have it harsh Blink

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”

General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5375 - 2015-11-05 14:33:53 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.

Mr. Date of Birth: 2007-10-31 you know so much about problems of newbies.


Is this post a joke ?

You do have to forgive the resident troll with his less than intelligent statements, He thinks that everyone above 50 mill skillpoints was granted them from the jovian's ........ Only the new batch of new players have it harsh Blink

Actually I think that someone here talking too much for others.
Doddy
Excidium.
#5376 - 2015-11-05 14:44:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Doddy
Portmanteau wrote:
Doddy wrote:

I was the one worrying about disenfranchising. And how can not being able to afford something within the game be disenfranchising someone? You think we should all have unlimited isk?


No, players should not have unlimited isk, but disenfranchising a large amount of new players because they can't afford the real life cash they will need to keep up with their rich IRL peers (since they will not be experienced enough to make the isk in game) will create greater perception of a "skillpoint barrier" and will potentially harm retention, even new account numbers.

Making SPs more available to a few new guys who can afford it comes at the cost of pissing off the likely larger number of new player who can't.




How is that remotely a legitimate argument? Implants already create exactly this, it is in game already and has been for years, same goes with skill book purchases. People can already speed thier skill progression through Rl cash, has been that way ever since Plex were introduced.

Your argument is basically that aspiration is a terrible thing that somehow makes people stop trying, pretty much the opposite of what most of human existence proves. For some reason the possibility of speeding your skill progression by playing the game will put people off playing the game? Wtf nonsense is that?

And who are they "keeping up with"? What difference is there that somebody who started same day as me uses his bought isk to buy 500k sp instead of a set of plus fives? Plex being available to isk has already put player progression in the world of rl money.

Do I think there should be limits to prevent the few super rich (whether rl or in game) swallowing up all the excess sp? definately. Put a limit on how many TSP a character can add in a month (i would say 10 but maybe less would work), put a hardcap on skills (i woud put it at the maximum possible sp anyone playing from day 1 could have). Nobody who wants the system to just help give their friends a start, respec thier chars or transfer sp from a main to an alt would have a problem with any of those. Older players could only at most speed thier progression by around 30%, no matter how rich they are. There would be restricted demand so prices would remain low and find an equilibrium (if there is no limit you would see everybody dump their unwanted sp day 1 and prices would rise constantly after that)
Kaihua Longzhu
Andromeda's Tears
#5377 - 2015-11-05 15:02:27 UTC
I can realistically see people getting very angry and quitting over this after spending years and thousands of dollars to get their characters where they are now. I can also see a lot of nullsec pilots coming into high sec and making Burn Jita look like a spring picnic...


Just sayin'
Doddy
Excidium.
#5378 - 2015-11-05 15:25:45 UTC
Kaihua Longzhu wrote:
I can realistically see people getting very angry and quitting over this after spending years and thousands of dollars to get their characters where they are now. I can also see a lot of nullsec pilots coming into high sec and making Burn Jita look like a spring picnic...


Just sayin'


These null sec pilots who are supposedly the ones getting the massive advantage? That will be the day.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#5379 - 2015-11-05 15:29:13 UTC
Quote:
Implants already create exactly this, it is in game already and has been for years, same goes with skill book purchases.

What implants created? Ability to train skills instantly?
Doddy wrote:
Plex being available to isk has already put player progression in the world of rl money.

Apart from baazar, what progresson are you talking about? Buying hulls that cannot be used?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Bantara
Dolmite Cornerstone
#5380 - 2015-11-05 15:49:57 UTC
Bantara wrote:
I would immediately stop recommending Eve and pull my sub. Immediately and not return. Too many other games. It's hard enough to find time for Eve, knowing that I can run into someone who bought an all-V char without even having to take another character slot(possibly requiring an additional account) is quite a deterrent.

As someone said on the first page, just build a renaming and re-sculpting feature.

I have to admit that I'm not quite this fired up anymore, but I still think this is a bad idea. For a lot of the reasons stated by others who also don't like it. I know there are arguments from the in-favor side and I am not saying their arguments are illogical or otherwise don't hold water. However when it comes to what I want from a game and game design priorities(especially for MMOs) the pro arguments fall under the con arguments in priority/preference.