These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4641 - 2015-10-23 18:39:55 UTC
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


The fact you're running around with your eyes closed, fingers in your ears saying "lalalalalalalalaICANTHEARYOU" does not invalidate peoples concerns.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4642 - 2015-10-23 18:49:29 UTC
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?
Burk Nysar
Last Rites.
#4643 - 2015-10-23 18:58:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4644 - 2015-10-23 19:04:30 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.

Now you are really hurting vets feelings. They all gonna quite and we will miss them.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Jadon Wallace
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4645 - 2015-10-23 19:10:50 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.


Isn't that kind of a important point? How many new players have money to throw at this, or are we going down to bringing out the credit cards to give a boost to our SP? I think there are much better things that can be done to improve the NPE than this.
Burk Nysar
Last Rites.
#4646 - 2015-10-23 19:17:51 UTC
Jadon Wallace wrote:
Burk Nysar wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.


Isn't that kind of a important point? How many new players have money to throw at this, or are we going down to bringing out the credit cards to give a boost to our SP? I think there are much better things that can be done to improve the NPE than this.


Enough people that CCP thinks it's a worth while investment of time to develop it. I may be the exception, but I am willing to spend some cash to reallocate some of my SP that I have wasted on this character
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4647 - 2015-10-23 19:20:23 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Burk Nysar wrote:

Enough people that CCP thinks it's a worth while investment of time to develop it. I may be the exception, but I am willing to spend some cash to reallocate some of my SP that I have wasted on this character

You will make PLEX cheaper. Thank you.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4648 - 2015-10-23 19:23:21 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.


a) who's more likely to have ISK to buy SP packages? Johny New or Joe Vet?
b) if it's for the noobs, then limit it to the first n SP.

Also you didn't adressed the point. Should CCP sell permanent advantages to players?
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4649 - 2015-10-23 19:25:30 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Should CCP sell permanent advantages to players?

They already do.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Burk Nysar
Last Rites.
#4650 - 2015-10-23 19:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Burk Nysar
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Burk Nysar wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


It helps close the gap of the advantage that veterans have over new players, for those that have money to throw at it.


a) who's more likely to have ISK to buy SP packages? Johny New or Joe Vet?
b) if it's for the noobs, then limit it to the first n SP.

Also you didn't adressed the point. Should CCP sell permanent advantages to players?


A. Joe vet but what is the point you are trying to make? Are Vets going to go crazy and max out Megacorporation Management V ? They more than likely have V in all the attributes I want to feel like I'm on a level playing field with them in PVP.
B. I don't really have an opinion there

Yes they should sell a permanent advantage. I personally want to purchase SP and I'm sure many others that face a similar SP cliff that I am facing would like to as well. I could care less about the advantage you think it gives other people, I know it'll limit my disadvantage, improve my enjoyment of he game, and keep me coming back for more EVE for many years to come.
Shinzann
Beast Cat Industries
#4651 - 2015-10-23 19:42:49 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


I concur with my fellow capsuleer on the permanence of skillpoints versus everything else in the game.

Making it easier to buy toons in the Character Bazaar? No problem.

Offering a rename/resculpt service to toons to help them escape their unsavory histories? Yes, I can see that being a useful service.

Allowing me to package up and sell skillpoints from skills I might have regretted training over the years? NO. Choices and consequences. I like looking at my mining drone II and mining IV skills because it reminds me of the weekend back in '06 when I tried mining as a way of making money. They're like the scars you get as you go through life. Being able to remove them... cheapens EVE in my opinion.

As for that fellow from a few pages back complaining that he was wasn't able to make content because he can't fly the flashy ships, I'm reminded of this old Goon propaganda poster from back in the day...Old Goonswarm Propaganda poster
Burk Nysar
Last Rites.
#4652 - 2015-10-23 20:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Burk Nysar
Shinzann wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


I concur with my fellow capsuleer on the permanence of skillpoints versus everything else in the game.

Making it easier to buy toons in the Character Bazaar? No problem.

Offering a rename/resculpt service to toons to help them escape their unsavory histories? Yes, I can see that being a useful service.

Allowing me to package up and sell skillpoints from skills I might have regretted training over the years? NO. Choices and consequences. I like looking at my mining drone II and mining IV skills because it reminds me of the weekend back in '06 when I tried mining as a way of making money. They're like the scars you get as you go through life. Being able to remove them... cheapens EVE in my opinion.

As for that fellow from a few pages back complaining that he was wasn't able to make content because he can't fly the flashy ships, I'm reminded of this old Goon propaganda poster from back in the day...Old Goonswarm Propaganda poster



Will that keep you up at night if I am able to purchase Minmitar Cruise V with cash? Will it hurt you if some new bros are able to fly your alliance doctrines because you gave them some SP? Will it diminish your enjoyment of the game if your fleets have more people willing to undock and fight because they can reship into stuff that can match your damage/tank output?

I had to walk up hill both ways to school, you should too
Burk Nysar
Last Rites.
#4653 - 2015-10-23 20:09:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Burk Nysar
Can someone outline the disadvantages of this in their opinion?
How will adding this system turn people away from the game?
What will it do that will ruin the game for you?

In my opinion most people won't even notice a change. To people like me, it will mean all the difference in keeping me in the game. Providing me an option to boost my SP in what I want without having to wait away from game for 6 months.

It just seems to me many people are upset because it's going to be "pay to win", or it's the prinicpal of I did it you should have to as well.
I guarantee I will still be losing just as much as before. I'm not going to be turning into super FC. I just want a perceived equal playing field.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4654 - 2015-10-23 20:10:18 UTC
Dror wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Should CCP sell permanent advantages to players?

They already do.


Such as?
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
#4655 - 2015-10-23 20:21:32 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
A. Joe vet but what is the point you are trying to make?


Actually, I think people with 80m+ SP are unlikely to use this system, unless they are really rich or the tokens are really cheap (they probably wont). People with less than 50m are the ones to really benefict, its going to be fantastic to reduce the gap between new players and vets. I can already see me finally sitting in a Tengu without having to wait another year.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4656 - 2015-10-23 20:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Dror wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Should CCP sell permanent advantages to players?

They already do.


Such as?

The character bazaar.

Protip: the thread's already discussed that this could benefit veterans the most.

Beyond that, adding microtransactions to a sub game, albeit just granular versions of what's already there, is absurd. I believe (and would say the same of development) that making a great game is within objective parameters, because science (as CCP is aware) has already established what's motivating. It's feeling great, more so than getting something. Will this improve sustain? I'm sure I would've gotten some SP initially, but would it have come with some form of cheapness feeling? I'm already dealing with my crew talking about finding it awful paying so much for the experience.. it's within plausibility that it equally increases that level of value requirement, which the game might not can provide as is. There are some pretty extensive criticisms on the progression system, altogether, and it seems the main reason for about every low quality aspect of the game.

So, this seems more like a patch than a fix.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#4657 - 2015-10-23 20:28:37 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
Can someone outline the disadvantages of this in their opinion?
How will adding this system turn people away from the game?
What will it do that will ruin the game for you?

In my opinion most people won't even notice a change. To people like me, it will mean all the difference in keeping me in the game. Providing me an option to boost my SP in what I want without having to wait away from game for 6 months.


Do you know the expression "moving goalposts?"

Let's say that you buy certain skills to fly ship A. Then vets will fly ship B, or learn the skills to fly ship B, and kick your ass. Then you buy the skills to fly ship C and have a chance versus ship B, but veterans will shift to ship D and again keep the upper hand. No matter how much money you spend, veterans will always be a step ahead since they know how to play the game and what skills to buy to defeat your attempts of "catching up".

This already happens with fleet doctrines and "OP" ships, but the process will be much faster once people can buy whole racial skillsets as needed.

The only way in which this measure can help noobs is by limiting it to noobs in terms of SP. Let everybody buy their first 10 million SP, or 6 monhs of skilling. After that, no more quick skilling.

And yet, knowing or not which skills to buy will render some of all of your noob money a waste.
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
#4658 - 2015-10-23 20:30:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Havenard
Dror wrote:
Protip: the thread's already discussed that this could benefit veterans the most.


Yeah sure, vets have a lot to gain paying the cost of 500k SP to get only 50k SP, and boy, they need 50k SP so hard, its going to change the world for them....

Are you people even thinking before talking?
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4659 - 2015-10-23 20:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Havenard wrote:
Dror wrote:
Protip: the thread's already discussed that this could benefit veterans the most.


Yeah sure, vets have a lot to gain paying the cost of 500k SP to get only 50k SP, and boy, they need 50k SP so hard, its going to change the world for them....

If they super rich in terms of isk they could create new specialized toon, so they actually benift from it also. Or by extracting to partly cover price for PLEX

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Shinzann
Beast Cat Industries
#4660 - 2015-10-23 20:37:12 UTC
Burk Nysar wrote:
Shinzann wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Havenard wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

don't worry be happy.mp3


This.

All the haters complaining about how this all can be terrible to EVE without being able to make a single solid point. Can we all just enjoy the f*ckin game?

I don't see anyone complaining about people injecting PLEX in the market to be rich ingame using real life cash, but when they propose something that isn't remotely as interfering you sh*t all over it? Seriously, you people need to go out more.


A PLEX gets you ISK. ISK gets you stuff. Stuff can be destroyed, and often it is destroyed. The advantages of PLEX are temporary and subject to destruction.

Skillpoints are destroyed only in a exceptional case. Thus, buying SP gives a permanent advantage that it's almost impossible to destroy.

Do you see a relevant difference here?


I concur with my fellow capsuleer on the permanence of skillpoints versus everything else in the game.

Making it easier to buy toons in the Character Bazaar? No problem.

Offering a rename/resculpt service to toons to help them escape their unsavory histories? Yes, I can see that being a useful service.

Allowing me to package up and sell skillpoints from skills I might have regretted training over the years? NO. Choices and consequences. I like looking at my mining drone II and mining IV skills because it reminds me of the weekend back in '06 when I tried mining as a way of making money. They're like the scars you get as you go through life. Being able to remove them... cheapens EVE in my opinion.

As for that fellow from a few pages back complaining that he was wasn't able to make content because he can't fly the flashy ships, I'm reminded of this old Goon propaganda poster from back in the day...Old Goonswarm Propaganda poster



Will that keep you up at night if I am able to purchase Minmitar Cruise V with cash? Will it hurt you if some new bros are able to fly your alliance doctrines because you gave them some SP? Will it diminish your enjoyment of the game if your fleets have more people willing to undock and fight because they can reship into stuff that can match your damage/tank output?

I had to walk up hill both ways to school, you should too


Will it keep me up at night? No.

Will it keep me up at night that players like you are willing to give CCP money to buy Minmatar Cruiser V because you're too impatient to learn them the old fashioned way? No. CCP could use the money.

That doesn't mean I have to like the idea though.