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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4381 - 2015-10-22 10:55:00 UTC
So why can you do nothing whilst it cooks?

Your posting doesn't make any sense, you contradict yourself and/or place glass walls around you and try and say the game is doing this.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4382 - 2015-10-22 11:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:


So by your own admission your prefering the instant gratification mode over working for something, any fool can grind.

Only if working is instant gratification. But it's defenetly not "instant".


If you would of said Grinding for fun i could accept that but not "griding time to SP" - What happens when you start grinding for sp's then are you going to actually pay for your subscription or you hoping to grind now even more for plex and sp's - where does your space job end and your fun start, skillpoints will only make it so much easier as youve so often pointed out .

I refer to ours old convestion
Jeremiah Saken wrote:

They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast.

Levi Belvar wrote:

instant gratification mode

I feel that I have right to be jerky with you becase you did so.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4383 - 2015-10-22 11:11:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
So why can you do nothing whilst it cooks?

...


Just think how frustrated new players will be when they buy shiny manufacture/invention/research skills and find out they have to wait for things to cook/succeed....oh wait...then they'll demand all products are simply delivered instantly if they pay more...
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4384 - 2015-10-22 11:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
afkalt wrote:

Your posting doesn't make any sense, you contradict yourself and/or place glass walls around you and try and say the game is doing this.

Peoples like Levi doesn't bother about it so why I should?
Force him to admite that he was wrong in something and I will answer you.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4385 - 2015-10-22 11:11:56 UTC
So youve now come to a point where you cannot give me an answer then, It has become a space job and i dont have time to do anything else but grind in pursuit of skillpoints and freeplay.

Outstanding, shall we resume this conversation is 6 to 12 months if your still around in the land of the Freebie.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4386 - 2015-10-22 11:12:44 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
If you know you would lose 1/4 playerbase but earn 1/4 more than today would you still push it?

"Research on loyalty has found that increasing customer retention by as little as 5 percent can increase profits by 25 to 95 percent."

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#4387 - 2015-10-22 11:13:24 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:

I see only the instant gratifiers left playing this game when this feature hits. Question is will they and the others that follow such crowd outweigh the traditional players that leaves?

Who are "instant gratifiers"? Thats people who griding on SP or people who earned money and paying for our ability to get a free sub?

Presuming your not a scammer or thief. How long does it take you to grind for your "free" sub each month?
You sound like the miner who says he can build ships for "free" because he mines the minerals.

Nothing in Eve is "free" - Your time has value - How much you value your time is down to you.


On topic - Any SP you sell has value, you took the time to train it.
Right now 1 SP is worth about 6,400 isk - 320 mil for 500k is break even.
320 mil isk for 500k SP
+
Aurum for SP packet
+
Player greed
=
More than many of the target audience will be able to pay.

If CCP can attract the rich and idle and get them to buy plex by the bucket load, this little venture may turn a profit. That is, if the game has something to offer these people, something to grab the world of gamers and make them want to play (CCP hasn't had a great deal of media attention since B-R and as that is never likely to be repeated, they need to find "something" to attract new players), clear guides on how to use the SP they just spent a few hundred dollars on and a much better NPE than what currently exists.

A niche game with a niche market isn't going to become mainstream simply because the rich can "pay to win". In my experience, they also bore easily and move on if the thrill isn't = to the cost (right now eve is far from that)
You want to increase the games appeal - It has to appeal to and offer the every day gamer something - The ability to buy SP at inflated prices won't do that.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4388 - 2015-10-22 11:19:57 UTC
Dror wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
If you know you would lose 1/4 playerbase but earn 1/4 more than today would you still push it?

"Research on loyalty has found that increasing customer retention by as little as 5 percent can increase profits by 25 to 95 percent."


Based on free 2 play models where you contantly sticking in your hand in your pocket looking for that slight advantage. That a really poor comparison.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4389 - 2015-10-22 11:21:52 UTC
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

You have to pick one and only one, really.


See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.

You're pretending like you know what's motivating and, in the same sentence, implying that some 1-10M SP should retain subs. Except, those subs have come for the gameplay of 400M SP, because that's of what the stories and advertisements are.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#4390 - 2015-10-22 11:25:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
considering after a month 50% of people quit, and 40% of them are "leveling their raven" would it really be so bad if grinding pve were used to "level up" by buying SP with their money? i mean, if 40% of people, which are 80% of the remaining players after 1 month are doing it - surely there's a market for that type of gameplay? they're still out in space, you can still go and mess with them.


Just give up and quit your job as an Eve Dev for coming up with this abominable idea. I'm losing all interest to log in anymore thanks to you.


the door's got a closer on it, don't let it hit you on the way out.


Are you trying to get people to quit Eve just because they don't agree with your philosophy? If you are someone from the Eve marketing department then you should be reprimanded for posting such a indecorous remark. Are you're an ally of CCP or an Enemy. Seems to me that you're probably the later because it's clear you don't give a lick of concern about the players and only about how much you can milk from this game.

So far, from all your post all you point out is that it would make no difference from buying char from Eve Bazaar, yada, yada. But you're forgetting something important dude, something someone who's only interested in the money aspect of Eve can't comprehend. And that is the fun aspect of Eve. I'm playing Eve because I'm enjoying the game. What you're proposing is going to subtract from that and worst thing about it is that you don't even seem to notice. You lack the ability to comprehend what draws people to play Eve which alone is reason enough for players to ignore anything you have to say in this post. If you really are some sort of representative in the marketing department of Eve then you really should step down and stop this post before you make more people contemplate on quitting Eve.


I'm not gonna do anything as rash as that just yet, mostly because I still have a lot of gaming time left and it's not guaranteed that this fail Dev alt has the final say in this. He's clueless about Eve just as you say and the only thing he see in Eve is how it can make more money instead of trying to improve the game. I'm gonna step away from Eve for 2-3 months and check back later to see how things have paned out then. If the game has decided to go the Dave's route then I'll know Eve's time has come at last. At that time I'll be stepping down from this game for good.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4391 - 2015-10-22 11:27:00 UTC
Dror wrote:
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

You have to pick one and only one, really.


See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.

You're pretending like you know what's motivating and, in the same sentence, implying that some 1-10M SP should retain subs. Except, those subs have come for the gameplay of 400M SP, because that's of what the stories and advertisements are.


If by that you mean B-R then that isn't gameplay and never can be. It was a one off unique event. It is impossible that it could occur very often (if at all again) due to the nature of that event. Gameplay is focused around small group interaction mainly with some large groups involved in Sov/Wardecs etc. To advocate changing something as fundamental as the skill system based on one off events is misleading. It has been pointed out before that if players are coming in thinking that B-R happens all the time it is the fault of the advertising, not the game mechanics.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4392 - 2015-10-22 11:29:55 UTC
Dror wrote:
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

You have to pick one and only one, really.


See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.

You're pretending like you know what's motivating and, in the same sentence, implying that some 1-10M SP should retain subs. Except, those subs have come for the gameplay of 400M SP, because that's of what the stories and advertisements are.


Your the one who's been quoting Research shows this and Motivation proves XYZ without showing anything That my friend is nothing short of proof gaming and means nothing. I wrote earlier what does and has motivated me in playing the game for 10 years. There is the old adage" If it aint broke dont fix it"

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4393 - 2015-10-22 11:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Dror wrote:
afkalt wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
afkalt wrote:

No-one said it was hard to grind for plex, what people are saying is that doing it as a newbro - for the most part - is utterly soul crushing and has a tendency to burn people out. Probably because the time it takes precludes everything else.

And here we are about to pull the trigger on putting even more pressure on newbros to chase the isk; instead of chasing the fun. Fun is what keeps people playing, not a second space job.

I didn't said either that griding is hard to do. It's also time consuming but less than waiting the quee and I want to trade my griding time to SP. "Fun" in yours meaning isn't pays for itself but I had some fun while griding by chating people who also doing this.

It's not a pressure - it's an option.



You say on one hand that it is an option, yet earlier you say you feel pressued to catch vets.

You have to pick one and only one, really.


See thing is, whilst you're waiting on teh training queue, you can be playing the game. How fast to fly a gankalyst again? 20 minutes now? Fly with Code, explode stuff, have fun whilst the queue is ticking.

The only thing locking you into a gameplay style until XXXX trains is you. Unless you're a focused super sitter, but if that were the case we would not be having this conversation.

You're pretending like you know what's motivating and, in the same sentence, implying that some 1-10M SP should retain subs. Except, those subs have come for the gameplay of 400M SP, because that's of what the stories and advertisements are.


If by that you mean B-R then that isn't gameplay and never can be. It was a one off unique event. It is impossible that it could occur very often (if at all again) due to the nature of that event. Gameplay is focused around small group interaction mainly with some large groups involved in Sov/Wardecs etc. To advocate changing something as fundamental as the skill system based on one off events is misleading. It has been pointed out before that if players are coming in thinking that B-R happens all the time it is the fault of the advertising, not the game mechanics.

No. There is no implication for that.

SP effects everything in the game -- pick a topic? Motivation, competitiveness, mastery, depth, socialization, referrals, diversity..

Edit @ Levi Belvar:
You're not arguing about the value of the experience, but saying that it's possible to enjoy. Protip: the demographic that enjoys paying the equivalent of hundreds of dollars just to enjoy an MMO is a tiny minority.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#4394 - 2015-10-22 11:44:04 UTC
Dror wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
If you know you would lose 1/4 playerbase but earn 1/4 more than today would you still push it?
"Research on loyalty has found that increasing customer retention by as little as 5 percent can increase profits by 25 to 95 percent."

Funny, mobile communication corps don't do this at all. In fact they do the oppossite. They "grind" new customers. Loyality programs are giving less than new customers bonuses. At least in my country. Cicrus is rolling endlessly.
I think research was good but model can't be fit to any conditions.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4395 - 2015-10-22 11:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Dror wrote:
SP effects everything in the game -- pick a topic? Motivation, competitiveness, mastery, depth, socialization, referrals, diversity..


How long have you been playing the game, what has motivated you to continue to play something that has such fundamental flaws. Are you driven as General Lootit to only find your progression through means of grinding to pay is there nothing to spark your imagination to affect other players around you.

Why do you even play it ?

I dont want research, protips anything else just Your views.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4396 - 2015-10-22 11:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Nothing in Eve is "free" - Your time has value.

Totally agree with - time has value. But what time more valuable for gameplay. That time what you spending offline while skill training or time when you actually playing?

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#4397 - 2015-10-22 11:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:
Add Pay2Win, and this enthusiasm will vanish which will probably lead me into unsubbing also.

Today I re-subbed only because I want to support this idea. It will be your choice. We already figured out that it's not a pay2win feature because experience>skill points in PVP.

I've been ignoring your drivel for some time now as it is obvious you are a troll and do not speak for new players at all.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4398 - 2015-10-22 11:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
SP effects everything in the game -- pick a topic? Motivation, competitiveness, mastery, depth, socialization, referrals, diversity..


How long have you been playing the game, what has motivated you to continue to play something that has such fundamental flaws. Are you driven as General Lootit to only find your progression through means of grinding to pay is there nothing to spark your imagination to affect other players around you.

Why do you even play it ?

I dont want research, protips anything else just Your views.

Beware Dror it's a trap Lol He just want to proof that you are wrong. And he's too lazy to read it all.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Metal Hunter
The Explorers Club
#4399 - 2015-10-22 11:55:01 UTC
I against this innovation. As well as most of Russian-speaking players.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4400 - 2015-10-22 11:57:19 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Moac Tor wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Dynamus Deckerman wrote:
Add Pay2Win, and this enthusiasm will vanish which will probably lead me into unsubbing also.

Today I re-subbed only because I want to support this idea. It will be your choice. We already figured out that it's not a pay2win feature because experience>skill points in PVP.

I've been ignoring your drivel for some time now as it is obvious you are a troll and do not speak for new players at all.

Date of Birth: 2015-09-21 20:28
I'm speaking for myself.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts