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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4101 - 2015-10-20 15:58:16 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

When goal setuped other things just doesn't matter anymore.


Its comments like that which make the for's challenges harder and i dont see why you would even want to play a game like eve or anyone be associated with anyone who thinks in that way. Your saying i want to be in my blops ..... right not playing now not worth my time. So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s


My rewards are the things i Kill, the things i build, The challenges i overcome i have never viewed the skill mechanic as a reward but the means to get where i am now.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4102 - 2015-10-20 15:59:53 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#4103 - 2015-10-20 16:02:26 UTC
Dror wrote:
That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s

Motivation?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4104 - 2015-10-20 16:05:05 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

Don't let agnger speaking for you. Cool down =)

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
killallnerds exe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4105 - 2015-10-20 16:05:37 UTC
I was really hoping http://www.evecharactersearch.com/ would get a shout out in this dev blog but... senpai did not notice me ;_;
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4106 - 2015-10-20 16:11:20 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

Don't let agnger speaking for you. Cool down =)


Its not anger here, there would be alot more * than visible if anger spoke. If anything i feel the same way when WoW sold out and went down the shitter of you can achieve anything you want as long as you stick your hand in your pocket and pay for it.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4107 - 2015-10-20 16:21:32 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

Don't let agnger speaking for you. Cool down =)


Its not anger here, there would be alot more * than visible if anger spoke. If anything i feel the same way when WoW sold out and went down the shitter of you can achieve anything you want as long as you stick your hand in your pocket and pay for it.

Now you really get it personal.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#4108 - 2015-10-20 16:27:21 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Waited a bit before bothering to look, can't see any issues

You know as well as I do Drac that this will be exploited to hell by goons and PL and won't be to the benefit of new players.


Everything will get exploited by people like Goons and PL, its their nature. It will certainly make assessing threat levels by past killboard history a bit hit and miss which will make it easier for them, but still I see the 6 month to 2 year old players as the most likely to quit, so this may help...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4109 - 2015-10-20 16:27:36 UTC
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:

When goal setuped other things just doesn't matter anymore.


Its comments like that which make the for's challenges harder and i dont see why you would even want to play a game like eve or anyone be associated with anyone who thinks in that way. Your saying i want to be in my blops ..... right not playing now not worth my time. So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s

I'm owner of copys Don't Starve and Don't Starve Together. Awesome games.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#4110 - 2015-10-20 16:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Moac Tor
Dracvlad wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Waited a bit before bothering to look, can't see any issues

You know as well as I do Drac that this will be exploited to hell by goons and PL and won't be to the benefit of new players.


Everything will get exploited by people like Goons and PL, its their nature. It will certainly make assessing threat levels by past killboard history a bit hit and miss which will make it easier for them, but still I see the 6 month to 2 year old players as the most likely to quit, so this may help...

I think that is the intention alongside making loads of money for CCP, but in reality I can't see it helping them. The big money players will use this to create alts on a whim and prices will be driven above what a new player can realistically grind for.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4111 - 2015-10-20 16:45:23 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s


My rewards are the things i Kill, the things i build, The challenges i overcome i have never viewed the skill mechanic as a reward but the means to get where i am now.

So? It still is a reward.. for subbing or for paying lots of money for a character and such. That's a huge turnoff for apparently 99% of the potential EVE market. The demographic which agrees to paying a subscription for a hugely limited amount of content in ratio of the game's potential is quite the minority. Such windowed specialization is uninteresting. There's no real interaction with the sandbox design (especially production and invention) -- the very feature list of the game. Maybe setting this out clearly makes it seem as simple as it is.

Here's a great post about why SP is barely an RPG mechanic.

Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Dror wrote:
That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s

Motivation?

How neat, this great source of commonality!

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Sjxx
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#4112 - 2015-10-20 16:55:06 UTC
Best change ever. I hope this is implemented soon. Big smileBig smileBig smile
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4113 - 2015-10-20 16:55:30 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Waited a bit before bothering to look, can't see any issues

You know as well as I do Drac that this will be exploited to hell by goons and PL and won't be to the benefit of new players.


Everything will get exploited by people like Goons and PL, its their nature. It will certainly make assessing threat levels by past killboard history a bit hit and miss which will make it easier for them, but still I see the 6 month to 2 year old players as the most likely to quit, so this may help...

I think that is the intention alongside making loads of money for CCP, but in reality I can't see it helping them. The big money players will use this to create alts on a whim and prices will be driven above what a new player can realistically grind for.



This. Clearly they've tried to mitigate it, hence the diminishing returns. But, BUT this doesn't account for the alts.

However I cannot believe this would be an oversight, perhaps initially, but not for long. Which means either people don't care, or the income takes precedence.

I dislike either option.
Vahligmarr
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#4114 - 2015-10-20 17:24:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Vahligmarr
gascanu wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
gascanu wrote:
Vahligmarr wrote:
This makes the whole idea even more terrifying..... no matter what you call it....it smells like PtoW, and this message will be spread.....


...

so, the fact that more ppl will be able to use it is bad? i really don't get you ppl: the only honest answer i can think of is hypocrisy:
"i suffered thru those months and months of training so everyone else must suffer also"

...

the fact is, once you get some time to think, eve need this; if we want to have a game to play in the next few years, this among others things that CCP must do, will help the game to survive;

...

and the most important thing :is this a better option for the new player over the character bazar? yes it is.


As somebody else already stated, this speed training will become a necessity not an option... like the learning skills were... CCP removed them, because they added nothing to the game, now they plan to put something similar back in, with the difference, they can charge for it. Learning Skills for Real Money if you like.....

And to be honest, have you ever had a better gaming experience, just by shortpassing things, like buying XPs, Gold, Levels or what ever. Playing a game for a long long time, to reach a goal, far ahead, rewards me.... i am not suffering on the way, i gather expierence....

Right now, we are buying SP already, with subscription time, but only a certain amount per month is possible. Everyone was limited by this rule, rich, poor, veteran, newbie, caldari, gallente, and so on....., in future, if this idea comes true, you can have as much SP as you want, with real money as the only limiting factor.

You are able to buy, ISK (gold) + SP (xp or character levels) in an MMORPG with Real Money... that is true pay to win if you ask me...


did you even read my post?
i have news for you:
right now, my friend, you can buy isk(gold)+SP(SP or caracter lvls)in this MMORPG called EVE ONLINE; you've been playing a how you call it "pay to win" game all this time Blink
ever heard of plex and caracter bazar? that's right, is that place where you go with money and buy ISK(GOLD) and wx or caracter lvls, like ALLOT of caracter lvls Blink oh and CCP was/is charging for it
to be honest this is not pay to win, it's more pay to catch up; and i have no problem with new players catching up at all; the fact that with this new system more ppl will be able to do it is a GOOD thing;

Quote:
Playing a game for a long long time, to reach a goal, far ahead, rewards me...

exactlly : playing a game not waiting 35 days till your skill lvs up;



Hey, i have news for you. I am not your friend. And i have read your post, did you read mine?P

I know there is something in the game already, which allows char transfer, i dont like it either. But there is a difference you refuse to see.
If you buy a whole character, it has its name, appearance, its history, and its skills. There might be some you don't need, some others will still be missing and so on.

- buying unallocated SP to put some skills instantly on LvL V on your current Char is a lot more powerful and something completely different.

- getting new introduced skills, 10 seconds after buying the skill book on Lvl V is also a bit different...


And what about playing the game, while waiting a skill is finished, like we all did? New Chars will start with 400.000 SP, its not that they can't do anything with that....
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4115 - 2015-10-20 17:25:51 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

Fun fact about insulting psychology

I said "reapeat himselve"
You said "parrot"

Who now my parrot? Lol

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4116 - 2015-10-20 17:31:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Levi Belvar
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s


My rewards are the things i Kill, the things i build, The challenges i overcome i have never viewed the skill mechanic as a reward but the means to get where i am now.

So? It still is a reward.. for subbing or for paying lots of money for a character and such. That's a huge turnoff for apparently 99% of the potential EVE market. The demographic which agrees to paying a subscription for a hugely limited amount of content in ratio of the game's potential is quite the minority. Such windowed specialization is uninteresting. There's no real interaction with the sandbox design (especially production and invention) -- the very feature list of the game. Maybe setting this out clearly makes it seem as simple as it is.

Here's a great post about why SP is barely an RPG mechanic.

Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Dror wrote:
That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s

Motivation?

How neat, this great source of commonality!


I still cant get my head around 1 point you cant really answer at all. 1 /2 / 3/ 4 / 5 -12 years, I can see why the young characters think holy **** balls, yeah i'll pay to advance they just see shinies all the more quicker, but if its so abhorrant to the old player then why have you continued to play it,why did you continue to play after a few months and think this aint for me can't get anywhere fast and quit. what kept you wanting to play it originally thats so different now you can use alot of content ?

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4117 - 2015-10-20 17:33:21 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
So in theory your saying eve is utter shite until i get what i want - by definition instant gratification without work.

Actually I many times said #1#2#3#4
I rather do some stuff in-game to earn isks to buy SP injector than wating until skills are trained.

Now I'm realise why Dave had forced to reapeat himselve and why he have so many posts.


Your just like daves parrot ive not even seen you come up with anything original to support what daves said.

Fun fact about insulting psychology

I said "reapeat himselve"
You said "parrot"

Who now my parrot? Lol


always really cool when the penny drops Roll

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#4118 - 2015-10-20 17:43:04 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Waited a bit before bothering to look, can't see any issues

You know as well as I do Drac that this will be exploited to hell by goons and PL and won't be to the benefit of new players.


Everything will get exploited by people like Goons and PL, its their nature. It will certainly make assessing threat levels by past killboard history a bit hit and miss which will make it easier for them, but still I see the 6 month to 2 year old players as the most likely to quit, so this may help...

I think that is the intention alongside making loads of money for CCP, but in reality I can't see it helping them. The big money players will use this to create alts on a whim and prices will be driven above what a new player can realistically grind for.



This. Clearly they've tried to mitigate it, hence the diminishing returns. But, BUT this doesn't account for the alts.

However I cannot believe this would be an oversight, perhaps initially, but not for long. Which means either people don't care, or the income takes precedence.

I dislike either option.


It's probably neither. Since alts are both legal and encouraged it's neither your, mine or CCP's place to try and restrict what we as players do with them and that includes the use of any new mechanics. Alt's online is what we were always going to get when you play a game that was exceptionally harsh for its time (as a way of mitigating some of the difficulty and risk.) so trying to impose arbitrary limits on them is a bit out of place and about 10 years to late.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#4119 - 2015-10-20 17:45:18 UTC
Vahligmarr wrote:
gascanu wrote:
[

so, the fact that more ppl will be able to use it is bad? i really don't get you ppl: the only honest answer i can think of is hypocrisy:
"i suffered thru those months and months of training so everyone else must suffer also"

...


...









And what about playing the game, while waiting a skill is finished, like we all did? New Chars will start with 400.000 SP, its not that they can't do anything with that....


yea, what i said...^^
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4120 - 2015-10-20 18:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dror
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dror wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
[quote=Dror]That's sorta a main problem with extrinsic rewards like SP.

https://youtu.be/sbHqFgn4SOw?t=10m42s


My rewards are the things i Kill, the things i build, The challenges i overcome i have never viewed the skill mechanic as a reward but the means to get where i am now.

So? It still is a reward.. for subbing or for paying lots of money for a character and such. That's a huge turnoff for apparently 99% of the potential EVE market. The demographic which agrees to paying a subscription for a hugely limited amount of content in ratio of the game's potential is quite the minority. Such windowed specialization is uninteresting. There's no real interaction with the sandbox design (especially production and invention) -- the very feature list of the game. Maybe setting this out clearly makes it seem as simple as it is.

Here's a great post about why SP is barely an RPG mechanic.
I still cant get my head around 1 point you cant really answer at all. 1 /2 / 3/ 4 / 5 -12 years, I can see why the young characters think holy **** balls, yeah i'll pay to advance they just see shinies all the more quicker, but if its so abhorrant to the old player then why have you continued to play it,why did you continue to play after a few months and think this aint for me can't get anywhere fast and quit. what kept you wanting to play it originally thats so different now you can use alot of content

What, the reason that the game is played at all? ..The reason that the game had a positive PCU trend, then all of a sudden negative?

Some posts here imply that the game (originally) only having the basic, T1 ships promotes a decently balanced playing field. That makes sense, but there're also a lot more games on the market.

More games coming from crowdfunding and free game engines devalues the whole industry's base price -- especially because a lot of games are just free. There's, as well, a decent percentage of sub potential that's already invested in those crowdfunding games. That's no reason to imply that it's a huge percentage, nor that those would give little attention to a game like EVE. So, it's completely about the reception of the game per sub; and lots of information is aplenty for what develops interest. There's no game like EVE, honestly, so there must be something preventing immersion; and that must be the limitations on experiencing the game.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.