These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#3821 - 2015-10-19 20:23:45 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Highlights
  • About 1000 Aurum per Extractor
  • 121 SP Packets for a 50M SP player
  • Estimated 769m ISK per SP packet
  • $1312.5 worth of PLEX to buy the SP to reach 50M


what's ~1000 aurum in isk?



3500 Aurum/Plex

plex price in isk is market based. More expensive plex is the more isk an aurum cost.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3822 - 2015-10-19 20:26:06 UTC
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
That change not about humiliating vets but about helping newbie to test more activities in shorter time. So they could choose their specialization which they like. Don't be jealous - you already have huge advantage.


So...just give them more starter SP?

This thing just looks like an reasonable attempt to make things easier for newbies (good, sure, whatever) but then goes completely off the rails by haphazardly trying to pay lip service the economy, then further mangling it with diminishing returns and whatnot.

No, thanks. Original purpose is good enough. Main issue of free starting SP thats it's free. It doesn't encourage to participate in game and just "makes life of newbie easire". I talked about not easier but shorter in terms of time.


Then...give every newbie a buffed cerebral accelerator that exponentially decays?

If a system is soooo fragile that it requires half or more the playerbase be shut out in order to work, then, it's probably not a good system. In any game, let alone the famously "single shard, one economy" game.

It's much like free starting SP. It doesn't encourage to do anything in the game. Just passive gaining of SP.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3823 - 2015-10-19 20:26:58 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.

Good, so your opinion on that subject doesn't matter. You perform scam, have lots of ISK, buy a toon on market. You can afford it. Not every noob will perform a scam, will have lots of cash and buy toon from market. I'm not speaking for you, I'm speaking for them. You a perfect representant of insta gratification generation. If CCP wants to lean player base on such players I'm outta here. This game will become even easier than now. They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast.


Dror wrote:
You're making the whole of issues out to be a people problem. Prove it, then. Prove that motivation isn't some inherent process that design has to be submitted to. Prove that undermining player skillfulness is motivating, instead of its alternative of allowing progression and mastery.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
Lucas Starwalker
Aerospace Defense Association
#3824 - 2015-10-19 20:28:13 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...
Horak Thor
Angry Mustellid
#3825 - 2015-10-19 20:30:11 UTC
I wasn't going to comment, as most that think this is a good idea probably won't, as a 10+year player with most accounts in the 50-80 mil sp range (ie most to lose) this can only be good.

Gj CCP again.

.....
Dave Stark
#3826 - 2015-10-19 20:31:00 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Highlights
  • About 1000 Aurum per Extractor
  • 121 SP Packets for a 50M SP player
  • Estimated 769m ISK per SP packet
  • $1312.5 worth of PLEX to buy the SP to reach 50M


what's ~1000 aurum in isk?



3500 Aurum/Plex

plex price in isk is market based. More expensive plex is the more isk an aurum cost.


at current prices (1.2bn) that's around 350m?, maybe more tomorrow when plex hits 1.3 or so.

well that's about 10x more expensive than the price i was randomly guessing at.
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3827 - 2015-10-19 20:31:06 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...


How many millionaires do you think there are that dont already have a max SP character? What has stopped them spending £1000's already on a 2004 character on character bazaar?

Your statement is pointless.
Lucas Starwalker
Aerospace Defense Association
#3828 - 2015-10-19 20:33:33 UTC
Just a simple reasoning...

There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will laugh and destroy the gameplay for others...

Lucas Starwalker
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3829 - 2015-10-19 20:33:54 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.

Good, so your opinion on that subject doesn't matter. You perform scam, have lots of ISK, buy a toon on market. You can afford it. Not every noob will perform a scam, will have lots of cash and buy toon from market. I'm not speaking for you, I'm speaking for them. You a perfect representant of insta gratification generation. If CCP wants to lean player base on such players I'm outta here. This game will become even easier than now. They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast.

Are you realise that you just slandered me? If you could check my posts history than you might notice that I earned money on FW. It was rude.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Dave Stark
#3830 - 2015-10-19 20:35:36 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Just a simple reasoning...

There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will laugh and destroy the gameplay for others...

Lucas Starwalker



so you're saying rich people have destroyed the gameplay for others?
atif09
Ltd Angel
#3831 - 2015-10-19 20:36:19 UTC
CCP will implement this feature regardless as it is a new cash stream.


I say if they're going to add it they should make it better

instead of punishing people who have high sp already with reductions on sp received from packets. 500k-50k...wtf is up with that?

make it a linear trait where the more sp packets you use the less sp you receive

e.g.

using 1-10 packets gives you full sp return
using 10-30 packets gives 90% sp return etc etc


they should also increase the sp drained amount from 500k to 1 mil as 1 mil sp packets sound better :)
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3832 - 2015-10-19 20:36:25 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Just a simple reasoning...

There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will laugh and destroy the gameplay for others...

Lucas Starwalker


If millionaires wanted to destroy the game for others, they would have spent £1000's on PLEX and crashed the market. Having a character with max SP is NOT going to destroy the gameplay for anyone... Just means you get to fly a shiner ship to get blobbed.
Lucas Starwalker
Aerospace Defense Association
#3833 - 2015-10-19 20:38:43 UTC
Skinzee wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...


How many millionaires do you think there are that dont already have a max SP character? What has stopped them spending £1000's already on a 2004 character on character bazaar?

Your statement is pointless.


When I started this game there was a note that selling or giving your character to someone else is prohibited. That should be honoured and anyone who's doing anything like that should be destroyed in the game. Easy...
Skinzee
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3834 - 2015-10-19 20:40:38 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...


How many millionaires do you think there are that dont already have a max SP character? What has stopped them spending £1000's already on a 2004 character on character bazaar?

Your statement is pointless.


When I started this game there was a note that selling or giving your character to someone else is prohibited. That should be honoured and anyone who's doing anything like that should be destroyed in the game. Easy...


Errrr... What?

Dave Stark
#3835 - 2015-10-19 20:41:02 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...


How many millionaires do you think there are that dont already have a max SP character? What has stopped them spending £1000's already on a 2004 character on character bazaar?

Your statement is pointless.


When I started this game there was a note that selling or giving your character to someone else is prohibited. That should be honoured and anyone who's doing anything like that should be destroyed in the game. Easy...


you do realise there's a forum section of the official forums (these forums) that is for the express purpose of buying and selling characters, that is moderated by CCP to ensure no scams take place. right?
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#3836 - 2015-10-19 20:43:27 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming. You'll be priced out the market. I've seen it many times, new players coming into the game with wild dreams of being able to PLEX their account and play for free but when reality hits they can barely even scrape together enough to afford their ships let alone a PLEX.

I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.

You should be spending that ISK on ships and having fun. Not grinding FW plexes to try and advance your training que, trust me I've done it and it is boring as heck.

What you don't realise is that we experienced players have been in this for years and we've tried all the ISK making methods to death barring some of the huge alliance level stuff so we are speaking from experience. This is not going to be accessible to you unless you are one of the very small percentage of players who become a successful trader or scammer, or you grind like hell to advance your skill que.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3837 - 2015-10-19 20:43:52 UTC
Hey Dave

you laughed when i said 530 / 600m , Cash cow coming to mind more now :)

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3838 - 2015-10-19 20:44:24 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

This gives some insight to the thinking on the limitations in the dev blog, also with some clever math one could estimate how much the extractors might cost.
2700 * 24 * 30 * 26 = 50,544,000
So it takes 26 PLEX at minimum to get to the 50M SP area plus the 2 PLEX needed to transfer a character would put it to a total of 28 PLEX, at the exchange rate of 3500 Aurum/Plex that would net 98,000 Aurum. With a 5M SP minimum requirement for extraction you would get to extract 45.5M from this character at 500,000 per extractor you would need 91 extractors.
98,000 / 91 = 1076.92 Aurum per extractor.

    Highlights
  • About 1000 Aurum per Extractor
  • 121 SP Packets for a 50M SP player
  • Estimated 769m ISK per SP packet
  • $1312.5 worth of PLEX to buy the SP to reach 50M


Dave Stark wrote:
at current prices (1.2bn) that's around 350m?, maybe more tomorrow when plex hits 1.3 or so.

well that's about 10x more expensive than the price i was randomly guessing at.

Except, that's equating character value to find the cost of extractors, which is completely baseless. At best, there's randomly assigning a percentage value to that -- so 2-15%, or whatever, of SP's value per packet.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3839 - 2015-10-19 20:46:50 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Skinzee wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?


Why? There is a lot of people that have lots of money (in real life). New players (not as lucky) will need to play years to get there where those who are millionaires (in real life) will lough and destroy the gameplay for others...


How many millionaires do you think there are that dont already have a max SP character? What has stopped them spending £1000's already on a 2004 character on character bazaar?

Your statement is pointless.


When I started this game there was a note that selling or giving your character to someone else is prohibited. That should be honoured and anyone who's doing anything like that should be destroyed in the game. Easy...

Here you can buy charchter for isks. Rich man could buy isks by selling PLEX on in-game market for 1.2b isk each. He could afford anything if he will.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3840 - 2015-10-19 20:47:31 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

So it takes 26 PLEX at minimum to get to the 50M SP area plus the 2 PLEX needed to transfer a character would put it to a total of 28 PLEX, at the exchange rate of 3500 Aurum/Plex that would net 98,000 Aurum. With a 5M SP minimum requirement for extraction you would get to extract 45.5M from this character at 500,000 per extractor you would need 91 extractors.
98,000 / 91 = 1076.92 Aurum per extractor.

I like a lot of the math, but I think this is forgetting a couple of points.

You calculate the transfer cost with both the seller's PLEX and Extractor costs. While not explicitly wrong, this makes selling via Extractor far more expensive for the buyer than the Character Bazaar. Seeing as this is meant to make the idea of resource trading easier I doubt CCP would shoot that effort in the foot by making it stupidly expensive compared to the alternative.

For reference, your 50M SP character is 93B ISK. On the front page of the Character Bazaar right now there are three toons in the 50M SP range being sold for 25-30B ISK (1, 2, 3).

Honestly, I'm expecting the Aurum cost to be a substitute for the 2 PLEX fee against an average CB transfer - not the full character train cost.

So assuming the average CB toon is 20M SP, that would mean 2 PLEX of Aurum would cover 20M SP worth of Extractors.
Or:
20M SP / 500k SP per Extractor = 40 Extractors
7000 Aurum for 2 PLEX / 40 Extractors = 175 Aurum per Extractor.

That cost of course going up/down depending on what the actual average CB sale is.

Still completely shot in the dark numbers, but there's no way we're going to end up with a production cost of 90B ISK on 50M SP worth of packets.