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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

First post First post First post
Author
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3801 - 2015-10-19 19:43:40 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:

Some more data:
- Most traded characters are 50 million SP or lower.
- A good portion of trades are to newer players (measured by new customers not just new accounts).

This gives some insight to the thinking on the limitations in the dev blog, also with some clever math one could estimate how much the extractors might cost.
2700 * 24 * 30 * 26 = 50,544,000
So it takes 26 PLEX at minimum to get to the 50M SP area plus the 2 PLEX needed to transfer a character would put it to a total of 28 PLEX, at the exchange rate of 3500 Aurum/Plex that would net 98,000 Aurum. With a 5M SP minimum requirement for extraction you would get to extract 45.5M from this character at 500,000 per extractor you would need 91 extractors.
98,000 / 91 = 1076.92 Aurum per extractor.

Now for the other end of the math;

400,000 starting SP up to 5M is efficient so you would need 9 extractors to get to 5M SP the next 45M is only 80% efficient.
so you would need 56,250,000 SP worth of SP packets or 113 SP packets. So your total would be 121 SP packets.

PLEX costing about 1.25B @ 26 month of training plus 2 PLEX surcharge you SP would be worth 768.48 ISK/SP plus the estimated 1076.92 Aurum 357,142.86 ISK/Aurum

768.48 * 500,000 = 384,240,000 ISK
357,142.86 * 1076.92 = 384,614,288.79 ISK
For an estimated total of 768,854,288.79 ISK per SP packet.
768,854,288.79 * 121 = 93B
93B / 1,250,000,000 = 74.4
75 PLEX at the best price of $17.5 per PLEX would cost $1312.5

    Highlights
  • About 1000 Aurum per Extractor
  • 121 SP Packets for a 50M SP player
  • Estimated 769m ISK per SP packet
  • $1312.5 worth of PLEX to buy the SP to reach 50M

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3802 - 2015-10-19 19:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Urziel99 wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:

Very good point.

CCP has squandered the revenues they made from Eve on other non-profitable ventures as stated in the post above. And now in order to compensate for those losses they're trying to dig in deeper and milk their only bread winner even further??

CCP is a company, not a product and it is the goal of any company to outlive any one product they create. If a company relies on a single product for the entirety of their revenue, this is not possible.


Yeah companies that sell electricity are never around long are they. Roll



Comparing a game software company to a public utility that is consumed by everyone? Apples vs Oranges

fail troll -5/10


Yeah, because utilities never go bankrupt nor face sudden and drasticallychanging markets.

And here is how I read that snippet of that comment. We are hoping the future of the company lies elsewhere than EVE, so we are going to milk EVE while it dies. But hey, I'm a glass half full kinda guy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3803 - 2015-10-19 19:45:12 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming. You'll be priced out the market. I've seen it many times, new players coming into the game with wild dreams of being able to PLEX their account and play for free but when reality hits they can barely even scrape together enough to afford their ships let alone a PLEX.

I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#3804 - 2015-10-19 19:47:10 UTC
ColdBeauty wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:
I can definitley see why the leaders of PL, goons, and others are so fiercely in favour of this.


Exactly what I thought as soon as Elise Randolph went on the charm offensive on reddit and various goons started backing this on the forum.

They can go **** themselves. They're just as bad as all the miners who whined about barge HP until CCP finally caved and buffed it.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3805 - 2015-10-19 19:47:11 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming.


Keep selling that, bro.

Less competition for the people who will be buying them dirt cheap when 100,000 characters worth of SP packs hit the market in the first week this goes live.

You are not a new player. You know this to be true. It's how it always happens when a marketable item is introduced for the first time. It is way overproduced a to the point where you can barely give it away.

That is when I'll be doing my buying. Not a month later when they are all hoarded by speculators.

Mr Epeen Cool
Lucas Starwalker
Aerospace Defense Association
#3806 - 2015-10-19 19:49:26 UTC
Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye).
What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!

Lucas Starwalker...
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#3807 - 2015-10-19 19:51:16 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming.


Keep selling that, bro.

Less competition for the people who will be buying them dirt cheap when 100,000 characters worth of SP packs hit the market in the first week this goes live.

You are not a new player. You know this to be true. It's how it always happens when a marketable item is introduced for the first time. It is way overproduced a to the point where you can barely give it away.

That is when I'll be doing my buying. Not a month later when they are all hoarded by speculators.

Mr Epeen Cool



I can't wait to see the price of the packs when they come out. current plan is to hours for plex a couple unused and randomly trained alts to strip there sp and just sell it hopefully at the peak of the new thing crazy.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3808 - 2015-10-19 19:52:49 UTC
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye).
What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!

Lucas Starwalker...


Walking in Stations (WiS) is dead as a doornail, IMO. Planets, let alone your own ship...no. Besides you are in a goop filled pod in your ship anyway.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
#3809 - 2015-10-19 19:54:49 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.


don't take it too personal. you're not the only noob.

Quote:
Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye).
What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!

Lucas Starwalker...
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3810 - 2015-10-19 19:57:41 UTC
darkchild's corpse wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.


don't take it too personal. you're not the only noob.

Quote:
Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye).
What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!

Lucas Starwalker...

I speaking for myself.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3811 - 2015-10-19 20:03:20 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. .

What do you think about Character Bazaar? And why you against this idea?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#3812 - 2015-10-19 20:04:17 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming.


Keep selling that, bro.

Less competition for the people who will be buying them dirt cheap when 100,000 characters worth of SP packs hit the market in the first week this goes live.

You are not a new player. You know this to be true. It's how it always happens when a marketable item is introduced for the first time. It is way overproduced a to the point where you can barely give it away.

That is when I'll be doing my buying. Not a month later when they are all hoarded by speculators.

Mr Epeen Cool



I can't wait to see the price of the packs when they come out. current plan is to hours for plex a couple unused and randomly trained alts to strip there sp and just sell it hopefully at the peak of the new thing crazy.


My view is that SP packets will closely track PLEX prices plus extractor costs over time. So setting up SP alts to PLEX one's account will be feasible by and large.

My problem is that as more and more people start to do this, maybe even expanding the number of their accounts as time goes bye it may require an increasing pressure on new players to provide these PLEX (after all, older players doing this also supplying the PLEX that they will then buy is just stupid). And if that falls apart, then the number of accounts might start to decline maybe even more precipitously than it already is.

Additionally, the negative tone of this thread also leads me to believe that we will see step down in the number of subscriptions as well which may be reflected in the number of players on line.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Lucas Starwalker
Aerospace Defense Association
#3813 - 2015-10-19 20:07:01 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lucas Starwalker wrote:
Hi there, I'm a new payer in Eve online, I just got my first 2 millions of Skill Points and I know that getting anywhere in this game will take me years. That, there is NO option to buy skill points is the main reason for me to stay with EvE online for many years to come. Any manipulations with this feature will result in deleting my character and canceling my account (well I'm paid till March but after ... bye, bye).
What you should do in this game is to develop much more personal way of playing (not changing anything in the game) just adding new features, like options to walk on the space ships, visit planets, add special mission (look at "Star Citizen"), I know that's a lot but this game is from 2003 and is getting better and stronger, please DO NOT GO THE BAD WAY. I believe in your team and I hope to stay on a round for many years to come!!!

Lucas Starwalker...


Walking in Stations (WiS) is dead as a doornail, IMO. Planets, let alone your own ship...no. Besides you are in a goop filled pod in your ship anyway.


Yeah, you are right. But the development in the good direction can go a long way. Lets say station upgrade, where all players can actually walk and talk to each other in 3D environment. You can make new contacts, or in big corporations new plans to go for a new adventure. Spaceships could have an option to have few pilots on the board for some special missions... It is possible but it will take the time. CCP could make more money by developing this game, so many more players could have something extra in the game but keep the basics at heart...
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3814 - 2015-10-19 20:07:21 UTC
CCP, when it came to Monocles you kinda did screw up...

This time however, I'd just say **** the whiners and go through with it. From my perspective this is a healthy change to the game that in reality will not affect these whiners in any way, shape or form.

In fact, it would be killing 2 birds with 1 stone. If this goes through then a lot of whiners will hopefully unsub and if lucky maybe even biomass. That means less cancer that is killing EVE. In return there just may be an influx of fresh blood not unlike when Brave did their thing - except now there is an actual feature which could potentially hook them in the game for a longer time.
Dror
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3815 - 2015-10-19 20:11:37 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The single best thing about Eve is the skill system.

Edit, the single best thing about Eve, WAS the skill system.

Motivation science would disagree.

Beyond that, just about everything that comes from games is gameplay, from dynamic socialization through actual skillfulness; and those are all limited by it.

Again, obviously retention is a problem because of SP, else this idea is completely unnecessary. Even more, the problem with it increasing sustain.. is that it's still money, on top of a sub, in a F2P industry. That's the issue now, and it comes from expectations and basic fulfillment processes.. described in motivation, game theory, and decision theory: "There's a tendency to strongly prefer avoiding losses than acquiring gains. Most studies suggest that losses are twice as powerful, psychologically, as gains," which is loss aversion.

Dror wrote:
Subs have much less reason, after fantasizing about the depth of the game and hearing about the great engagements, to stay with the game -- subbing to what end for gameplay they have yet to experience?

What's really powerful is freedom.

"SP is helpful for the game?" Here's all of the research on motivation -- it says the opposite! What purpose does it serve, then? Starter corps are non-competitive. Sov is unchallenged. "Fix sov!" you say? Remove SP.

Sair Dontis
Phoenix Dawn LLC
#3816 - 2015-10-19 20:12:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Sair Dontis
I am only a newbie so take what I say with a grain of salt. Though being a newbie I can say that I enjoy the game and find the skill point system for the most part refreshing in some ways. I have yet to not have something to do. I find it refreshing that unlike MMOs like WoW most of your game experience isn't over till next week, nor capped with a limited number of tries to get anywhere.

Honestly the only time that I really feel the "SP Wall" is when being preyed on with endless wardecs by a bored weathly corp/ alliance with higher end ships (that are more expensive than I would want to pay anyway), though they are paying way more than I am to maintain their CONCORD bribe.

Alright to the heart of it, as I see it from a new pilot stand point. I find the Skill Point (SP) system well paced. By this I mean that by the time you have trained into said ship or profession hub skill (PI, research, etc) you will actually have the ISK to pay for it as long as you didn't moan too much about losing a ship or two in the process. Honestly the only real time that I lost a ship(s) was when I was pushing the envelope and overextended and I had a blast risking it all on a possible big payoff. My point is simply having more skills in no way insulates you from the cold harsh universe of EVE, nor should it.

I as a new player I love that I am building a character that is for the most part solely built from the ground up by my choices. I can not understand some of fellow new pilots saying that they "wasted" their time with a "worthless" skill. It is not as if you can make a mistake and erase the skill once you learn, actually you don't even lose your progress in the skill if you remove it from your queue (I am looking at you professions of Wow) !

I see if given the choice to erase my "mistakes" either through remapping my skill points or simply selling my character as diluting the game of EVE itself one SP or character at a time. I don't see myself as a victim or the super rich or highly skilled characters/ corps/ alliances out there. To tell you the truth, now like I said I am not a veteran of this game yet, but the mere fact that I can train into a Tech III Destroyer in under a month as amazing (granted I would not have the skills yet to fully take advantage of all it can do) and a huge bone thrown to the just starting player!

TLDR: If I have not been clear, I would like to say my feedback as a just started EVE player, would be a resounding NO! to being able to purchase Skill Points in any way, shape, or form. I personally would see it as losing something that truly makes my Capsuleer unique to me.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#3817 - 2015-10-19 20:13:14 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Moac Tor wrote:

You won't be able to afford them unless you plan on a career in corp theft and scamming.


Keep selling that, bro.

Less competition for the people who will be buying them dirt cheap when 100,000 characters worth of SP packs hit the market in the first week this goes live.

You are not a new player. You know this to be true. It's how it always happens when a marketable item is introduced for the first time. It is way overproduced a to the point where you can barely give it away.

That is when I'll be doing my buying. Not a month later when they are all hoarded by speculators.

Mr Epeen Cool



I can't wait to see the price of the packs when they come out. current plan is to hours for plex a couple unused and randomly trained alts to strip there sp and just sell it hopefully at the peak of the new thing crazy.


My view is that SP packets will closely track PLEX prices plus extractor costs over time. So setting up SP alts to PLEX one's account will be feasible by and large.

My problem is that as more and more people start to do this, maybe even expanding the number of their accounts as time goes bye it may require an increasing pressure on new players to provide these PLEX (after all, older players doing this also supplying the PLEX that they will then buy is just stupid). And if that falls apart, then the number of accounts might start to decline maybe even more precipitously than it already is.

Additionally, the negative tone of this thread also leads me to believe that we will see step down in the number of subscriptions as well which may be reflected in the number of players on line.


Which is why im going to burn my 15, 11 and 9 mil sp alts that haven't been used or subbed in almost years at this point to take all there sp and hope that the price is sky high at the start. I realize that the price will normalize down to plex+extractor which is why my plan is to do it right off when released as I don't plan to sub those accounts unless over the long term it is shown to be profitable to actually run an alt for sp harvesting only.
Dave Stark
#3818 - 2015-10-19 20:16:17 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Highlights
  • About 1000 Aurum per Extractor
  • 121 SP Packets for a 50M SP player
  • Estimated 769m ISK per SP packet
  • $1312.5 worth of PLEX to buy the SP to reach 50M


what's ~1000 aurum in isk?
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#3819 - 2015-10-19 20:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
General Lootit wrote:
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
That change not about humiliating vets but about helping newbie to test more activities in shorter time. So they could choose their specialization which they like. Don't be jealous - you already have huge advantage.


So...just give them more starter SP?

This thing just looks like an reasonable attempt to make things easier for newbies (good, sure, whatever) but then goes completely off the rails by haphazardly trying to pay lip service the economy, then further mangling it with diminishing returns and whatnot.

No, thanks. Original purpose is good enough. Main issue of free starting SP thats it's free. It doesn't encourage to participate in game and just "makes life of newbie easire". I talked about not easier but shorter in terms of time.


Then...give every newbie a buffed cerebral accelerator that exponentially decays?

If a system is soooo fragile that it requires half or more the playerbase be shut out in order to work, then, it's probably not a good system. In any game, let alone the famously "single shard, one economy" game.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3820 - 2015-10-19 20:23:25 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
I already did it and having cash on top of that. Only reason why I'm writing here so much and don't playing EVE is traning quee which I can't accselerate. I rather earn some isks and dump them into SP than waiting until training is done. So maybe you need to stop speeking for us all.

Good, so your opinion on that subject doesn't matter. You perform scam, have lots of ISK, buy a toon on market. You can afford it. Not every noob will perform a scam, will have lots of cash and buy toon from market. I'm not speaking for you, I'm speaking for them. You a perfect representant of insta gratification generation. If CCP wants to lean player base on such players I'm outta here. This game will become even easier than now. They may earn money this way at start, but insta gratification crowd has short focus plane, and gets boring fast.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville