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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Maekchu
Doomheim
#3661 - 2015-10-19 13:03:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Maekchu
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.



It is only available with rl money as the extractors are bought via aurum

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.
Syn'Drakkahr
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3662 - 2015-10-19 13:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Syn'Drakkahr
Quote:

1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearanging skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud if someone make examples of you.

2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it.


1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN
Optical Illusion
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3663 - 2015-10-19 13:05:52 UTC
Is this even still being discussed?

Bad idea is bad.

/endthread
Jared Khanar
#3664 - 2015-10-19 13:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Maekchu wrote:

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.



and the plex doesn´t mean money for ccp? try to view this from the company side

EDIT: this is hiding rl money flows through players to obscure this - nothing else

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3665 - 2015-10-19 13:10:11 UTC
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.



and the plex doesn´t mean money for ccp?

That really has nothing to do with anything.

As I said before, this change and mechanic is very similar to Plex, given that SP does not matter more than ISK does in the grand scale of things.

If you are against this feature, then you equally should be against plex. Since both provides ways to progress using IRL money.

Whether this gives CCP money is irrelevant. Since as a company, in order to keep EvE online going, they need to have revenue.
Jared Khanar
#3666 - 2015-10-19 13:11:21 UTC
Maekchu wrote:

That really has nothing to do with anything.


Sadly this is very important.

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Rawthorm
The Establishment
#3667 - 2015-10-19 13:11:30 UTC
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.



and the plex doesn´t mean money for ccp? try to view this from the company side


How is this even a factor? Why is it seemingly a bad thing that CCP make any money? A well fed CCP can only further development of this game which we are all so passionate about.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3668 - 2015-10-19 13:13:27 UTC
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN

Sure, feel free to max your skills and you will find out, that those maxed skills have little relevance on your ability to "win" EvE. If you have played the game, you would know that SP is not that relevant. Experience, social skills and intellect is what matters in EvE.

Not arbitrary boundaries for activities, that are attained by keeping an account AFK subbed.
Jared Khanar
#3669 - 2015-10-19 13:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Rawthorm wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.



and the plex doesn´t mean money for ccp? try to view this from the company side


How is this even a factor? Why is it seemingly a bad thing that CCP make any money? A well fed CCP can only further development of this game which we are all so passionate about.


If the fact that ccp is charging money not only for a transaction itself but also buyer and seller seperatly in a subscription based game is ok for you - well it is ... ok for you. Nothing to say furthermore if you want to be threated like that :)

I guess we are not paying our subscription to use all eve features - we are paying only for access and additionaly to use the features to come - but not only one time - better several times for the same one ...

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#3670 - 2015-10-19 13:13:43 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
The feature is intended to allow players to trade resources. Whether that's real-world currency, ISK, or time. It is the same philosophy behind PLEX, and why PLEX is both effective and sustainable over long periods. We don't create a way for players to buy their way to victory. We aren't injecting new SP in to the game. We simply allow players to trade the resources they have for the resources they want.


You are still trying to spin this in a positive light 175+ pages in.

Guess I'm outta here.

Not today spaghetti.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3671 - 2015-10-19 13:15:55 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.



It is only available with rl money as the extractors are bought via aurum

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.


You think that the plex comes from the ether too ???

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3672 - 2015-10-19 13:16:15 UTC
Jared Khanar wrote:
Rawthorm wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.



and the plex doesn´t mean money for ccp? try to view this from the company side


How is this even a factor? Why is it seemingly a bad thing that CCP make any money? A well fed CCP can only further development of this game which we are all so passionate about.


If the fact that ccp is charging money not only for a transaction itself but also buyer and seller seperatly in a subscription based game is ok for you - well it is ... ok for you.

And both transactions can be payed with in-game currency.

They are basically making a Plex for SP. Again, if you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex rioting on the forums day in and day out.
Syn'Drakkahr
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3673 - 2015-10-19 13:16:21 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN

Sure, feel free to max your skills and you will find out, that those maxed skills have little relevance on your ability to "win" EvE. If you have played the game, you would know that SP is not that relevant. Experience, social skills and intellect is what matters in EvE.

Not arbitrary boundaries for activities, that are attained by keeping an account AFK subbed.


It not about maxing Skills, its about keeping EVE Unique!
Fed up of repeating my self.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3674 - 2015-10-19 13:16:27 UTC
Maekchu wrote:
I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.

Buying items with plex and buying items+SP with it is not equal. The only advantage you have with plex is that you don't have to farm pve content in game for ISK (for example). If you want to help new players by introduced proposal items they have to pay anyway, because they don't have enough SP/ISK/experience to earn ISK effectively. It the end it's always the money.
I'm not against baazar, it's necessary evil. I not against other players respec their SP (I don't give a s*** about it). I against lie that this will help new players. It won't, they have to pay RL cash.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Jared Khanar
#3675 - 2015-10-19 13:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Maekchu wrote:

And both transactions can be payed with in-game currency.

They are basically making a Plex for SP. Again, if you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex rioting on the forums day in and day out.


Even if this is possible the underlying rl money flow can´t be denied. Plex is only payed one time for example. so you can´t compare this feature directly to plex - else the plexbuyer has to pay as it gets bought from ccp - and the buyer has to pay rl money additionaly if it gets bought from the market.

EDIT: also this sp trade is easily exploitable by ccp - plex not

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3676 - 2015-10-19 13:17:40 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Jared Khanar wrote:
Maekchu wrote:

I would totally agree with you, if the feature was only attainable with IRL money. However, since it is not. This is very similar to a Plex, but instead of ISK you exchange SP. If you are against this idea, you should equally be against Plex, because both gives you the option to progress faster by buying an items with IRL money. However, with how EvE works both more ISK and more SP does not really matter, since you cannot "win" EvE based on these two factors alone.



It is only available with rl money as the extractors are bought via aurum

You can exchange a Plex for AUR (3500 AUR to be specific). Meaning, this can still be attained with in-game currency only.


You think that the plex comes from the ether too ???

Which was my point. If you are against this change you should equally be against Plex.

Both are pay to progress mechanics. Both are very similar at their core, but Plex exchanges ISK while this new mechanic exchanges SP.
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3677 - 2015-10-19 13:18:54 UTC
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:
Quote:

1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearanging skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud if someone make examples of you.

2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it.


1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN

You are not constractive any more. If you want to continue dialog please be more specific.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Maekchu
Doomheim
#3678 - 2015-10-19 13:20:29 UTC
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:
Maekchu wrote:
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:

1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN

Sure, feel free to max your skills and you will find out, that those maxed skills have little relevance on your ability to "win" EvE. If you have played the game, you would know that SP is not that relevant. Experience, social skills and intellect is what matters in EvE.

Not arbitrary boundaries for activities, that are attained by keeping an account AFK subbed.


It not about maxing Skills, its about keeping EVE Unique!
Fed up of repeating my self.

But some of EvE unique game mechanics are just fundamentally bad.

A mechanic that promotes AFK playstyle, where you just spin ships and wait for skills to train is bad. The uniqueness in EvE is its sandbox elements and the interaction between players. This is what should be promoted and I think this feature does that, since it gives people the option to more rapidly get out and do what they enjoy. Meaning more people in space.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#3679 - 2015-10-19 13:22:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeremiah Saken
Maekchu wrote:
But some of EvE unique game mechanics are just fundamentally bad.

So let's make it even worse?
Edit: and charge for it?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Syn'Drakkahr
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3680 - 2015-10-19 13:23:44 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
Syn'Drakkahr wrote:
Quote:

1)It will devalue training time for sure but is it makes your char so speacial like one of the bazaars toons or time which you spend for actually playing or personality which you make? Maybe you just afraid that someone make example from you and rearanging skill like you did? I think it's reason to proud if someone make examples of you.

2)Farmers need massive supply of extractors so they are much depending from price on the market. If everyone will farm SP like this it wont be profitable because of high price on extractor and low price on SP. Market will balace it.


1.) Lets make EVE not UNIQUE? Lets all farm SP and EVERYONE gain Max Skills! Yay!! NO!!

2.) PAY 2 WIN

You are not constractive any more. If you want to continue dialog please be more specific.


Right, I'll mention this 1 more time.

Removing time to skill by making it payable to get instant SP removes the Unique qualities that makes EVE a sandbox.
30+k players that can purchase SP from the market is not unique.