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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3141 - 2015-10-18 14:35:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
[Can you sell me 500k sps from Dave Stark for me to inject into Portmanteau please ? Apparently that facility already exists. Thanking you in advance.


yes. how much are you willing to pay?

Daniela Doran wrote:
Not only a break, he needs to stop posting, entirely!

indeed, my facts are getting in the way of your fabrications.


Facts? More like delusions.
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#3142 - 2015-10-18 14:36:54 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
You are doing neither yourself, nor the argument you stand for any kind of favour with these rhetorical antics. It is very clear, that you gave an assessment just before, no definition. It is subjective and irrelevant in this context. Anyone can read it a few posts up.


so you're not going to answer the question i asked, even after i was asked to ask it?

honestly - if you're not going to answer the question then it shouldn't have been asked for.


Again, you misunderstood.

Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
You are giving an assessment here. What characters you do like, or do not like, is irrelevant for the topic. Same goes for me by the way. It may change over time, just as their SP. Maybe you could define and describe the actual system you are referring to?


It was about the quality of your question, not about me denying it should be answered. If you change the quality, it would move the discussion forward. It should definitely be answered then. I do give you that.

By the way, do you know the joke about the guy listening to the message about a wrong-way driver on the radio traffic service? He responded by “What do you mean, one of them? There are hundreds!” Pirate

Seems to me you are getting quite a few messages about reading posts and quoting properly.



i don't need to change the quality. i described how a process worked and asked you to tell me which process i was talking about. if you don't know which one i'm talking about that's fine.


You did not ask me. I really loled when i read this. Maybe you are referring to someone else?

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Dave Stark
#3143 - 2015-10-18 14:38:03 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
You did not ask me. I really loled when i read this. Maybe you are referring to someone else?


probably.

however i would have assumed you were replying to me because i was talking to you instead of just inserting yourself in to a conversation you weren't a part of.
Tristan Agion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3144 - 2015-10-18 14:38:31 UTC
Robert Sawyer wrote:
This will introduce a pay-to-win philosophy that will drive noobs and veterans alike away from the game as literally EVERYBODY will be able to do anything - you'll have new players buying PLEX and the SP to fly Dreadnoughts within days.

So, to fly a Dreadnought you need what, 30M SP at a minimum? Under the current proposal, you need to buy 72.5 skill packets to get you that much SP. Let's say the market price for a skill packet is about 0.166 PLEX (it will be less that 0.25 PLEX, and more than whatever the extractors costs). Then you need 12 PLEX to buy the skill packets to fly a dreadnought.

How many newbies will actually spend a year's supply of PLEX just to fly a dreadnought? And why do you think it matters if a few do? Chances are that a newbie in dreadnought will derp around for a few days before getting killed by somebody who knows what they are doing. However, that newbie gave CCP about 200 bucks to run their game, and dumped 12 PLEX on the market driving the price for PLEX down. Both are good for you, since the game will be around for longer and you will find it easier to play to pay. And hey, maybe you are the competent player who blows the clueless newbie in his dreadnought to bits, and you get a fun kill mail out of it as well. Meanwhile, the newbie will either drop out - but probably would have anyway, now however having financed your game for a bit - or will have gotten "big ships are better" out of their system. What's not to like?
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3145 - 2015-10-18 14:39:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Its hilarious how hes flapping about skills now lol


you ask about skills i'm going to talk about skills... how is that not obvious?


Not skills mate, you saying that a bazaar toon is the same as a TSP one and theyre not and you just dont see or want to admit theyre different after the 150 page fluff up


considering you can create a TSP one however you want, it can very much be the same as a bazaar toon if you want it to.


why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3146 - 2015-10-18 14:39:31 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
You really can't imagine that breaking a hugely desirable commodity such as skillpoints into semi affordable chunks will make them seem like a must have for new guys ?

You know cocaine was never a massive issue in poor neighborhoods until it was re-marketed as cheaper crack rock Lol
Lol

I could be wrong, but what I'm imagening right now is an EVE where buyable SP will actually make people obsess much less over SP...

If you're a smoke addict, you get worried if you don't have a spare pack around the house, even though you probably won't need all those cigarettes before you'll have a chance to buy more.

Oddly enough I think both POVs will occur. I agree that SPs as a commodity will seems less important to some, to me in fact. But also more SPs within easier reach of newer guys will have the opposite effect, like dangling a pipe in front of a crack ho.
Indeed! But since they will be purchasable ONLY WITH ISK, this could also just motivate them to make ISK.

True, ISK can be purchased with PLEX, but that's nothing new.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Dave Stark
#3147 - 2015-10-18 14:40:36 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???


because a bazaar toon will be cheaper than creating one from scratch with TSPs.
Interfly Ghormenheist
The Caravan Track
#3148 - 2015-10-18 14:41:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
You did not ask me. I really loled when i read this. Maybe you are referring to someone else?


probably.

however i would have assumed you were replying to me because i was talking to you instead of just inserting yourself in to a conversation you weren't a part of.


I am part of this conversation. Anyway, there are serious and grave concerns being voiced here. You will not be able to overcome them alone.

Last time that “greed was good”, the information was leaked. In 2015 it was posted.
Dave Stark
#3149 - 2015-10-18 14:42:33 UTC
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Interfly Ghormenheist wrote:
You did not ask me. I really loled when i read this. Maybe you are referring to someone else?


probably.

however i would have assumed you were replying to me because i was talking to you instead of just inserting yourself in to a conversation you weren't a part of.


I am part of this conversation. Anyway, there are serious and grave concerns being voiced here. You will not be able to overcome them alone.


i agree, there are. however people are very late to the party with a lot of them as most of the issues and concerns they're voicing have already come to pass from the bazaar.
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3150 - 2015-10-18 14:45:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???


because a bazaar toon will be cheaper than creating one from scratch with TSPs.


Your favourite part Roll back to the blog.

Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dave Stark
#3151 - 2015-10-18 14:47:00 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???


because a bazaar toon will be cheaper than creating one from scratch with TSPs.


Your favourite part Roll back to the blog.

Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now


and?
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3152 - 2015-10-18 14:47:55 UTC
Tristan Agion wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:
This will introduce a pay-to-win philosophy that will drive noobs and veterans alike away from the game as literally EVERYBODY will be able to do anything - you'll have new players buying PLEX and the SP to fly Dreadnoughts within days.

So, to fly a Dreadnought you need what, 30M SP at a minimum? Under the current proposal, you need to buy 72.5 skill packets to get you that much SP. Let's say the market price for a skill packet is about 0.166 PLEX (it will be less that 0.25 PLEX, and more than whatever the extractors costs). Then you need 12 PLEX to buy the skill packets to fly a dreadnought.

How many newbies will actually spend a year's supply of PLEX just to fly a dreadnought? And why do you think it matters if a few do? Chances are that a newbie in dreadnought will derp around for a few days before getting killed by somebody who knows what they are doing. However, that newbie gave CCP about 200 bucks to run their game, and dumped 12 PLEX on the market driving the price for PLEX down. Both are good for you, since the game will be around for longer and you will find it easier to play to pay. And hey, maybe you are the competent player who blows the clueless newbie in his dreadnought to bits, and you get a fun kill mail out of it as well. Meanwhile, the newbie will either drop out - but probably would have anyway, now however having financed your game for a bit - or will have gotten "big ships are better" out of their system. What's not to like?
Great analysis, as always!

Got me thinking: if CCP keeps the extractor PLEX-equivalent price (in AUR) lower than the expected PLEX-equivalent price of the 500,000 SP, this whole thing will probably INCREASE PLEX supply, which is pretty cool!

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3153 - 2015-10-18 14:50:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???


because a bazaar toon will be cheaper than creating one from scratch with TSPs.


Your favourite part Roll back to the blog.

Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now


and?


This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Dave Stark
#3154 - 2015-10-18 14:52:58 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Levi Belvar wrote:
why would you want a masterpiece with the flaws of a bazaar toon ???


because a bazaar toon will be cheaper than creating one from scratch with TSPs.


Your favourite part Roll back to the blog.

Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now


and?


This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.


buying and selling SP has always been done for profit by CCP. character transfers aren't free.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3155 - 2015-10-18 14:54:28 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.
Partly yes, but not as much as you think.

On one hand, if you want moar SP nao, yes you'll pay CCP. For the extractor, possibly also PLEX for the ISK (which btw could increase PLEX supply, not half bad methinks).

On the other hand, if you don't need SP on an alt right now, you may decide to unsub it...

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Levi Belvar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3156 - 2015-10-18 14:56:36 UTC
Oh, and one last note on the Bazaar, it won't go anywhere for now[/quote]

and?[/quote]

This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.[/quote]

buying and selling SP has always been done for profit by CCP. character transfers aren't free.[/quote]

one of your fanboys posted earlier on what they make from character transfers which are not the selling of skillpoints, now break it down to what theyre going be making on 500,000 packets if they actually released all the info instead of drips i bet its going to be a hell of alot more before the tides turn

“Stupidity and wisdom meet in the same centre of sentiment and resolution, in the suffering of human accidents.”
Public Relation
Outer Space Relic Seekers
#3157 - 2015-10-18 14:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Public Relation
Oh no with this new feature, people will Pay to win...

Ok, lets put this in perspective:

I am rich beyond belief, and hear about a game called EvE with huge interstellar war etc. Ok so i decide to play the game:

- I buy the game, set-up sub.
- I buy a few hundred plex, i put them on the market low enough for a fast sell.
- When those plex are sold i have a few hundred billion isk in my wallet
- After some research on the web i buy a few high skilled Titan/carrier/dread character, and a high skilled pvp character.

Then i convo the leader of one of the best alliance in the game, i explain that i am rich and propose to inject a few billion isk every month in his alliance if he get me a decent place in his organisation, he agree and i then get to there staging system, buy all the cap/subcap ships i need with the best mod possible.

So in less then 48 hour i have "pay to win EvE". I did this with the feature already available in the game...

And suddenly people get upset because "now" someone can "pay to win" with the skill trading feature?????????

Hilarious.
Dave Stark
#3158 - 2015-10-18 14:58:19 UTC
Levi Belvar wrote:
one of your fanboys posted earlier on what they make from character transfers which are not the selling of skillpoints, now break it down to what theyre going be making on 500,000 packets if they actually released all the info instead of drips i bet its going to be a hell of alot more before the tides turn


we can't break it down. we don't know how much extractors will cost.
Jared Khanar
#3159 - 2015-10-18 15:00:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jared Khanar
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:

Got me thinking: if CCP keeps the extractor PLEX-equivalent price (in AUR) lower than the expected PLEX-equivalent price of the 500,000 SP, this whole thing will probably INCREASE PLEX supply, which is pretty cool!


... if only the one´s milking their characters for sellable sp do this via buying aurum instead of buying plex from the market to do so. if not because they have the needed isk to supply this - and because spending isk may be prefered over spending rl money - pretend wich group consumes / injects more plex. Also don´t forget speculators.

Economic Services

trading spacepixels
Delegate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3160 - 2015-10-18 15:04:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Delegate
Levi Belvar wrote:
This is being done pure and simply for profit, whether you like it or not and like i said before you really think it will stay if they can make yet another whole new revenue stream from another added F2P feature of microtransactions that hit at a core principal of the game they said would never alter.


My personal take on this proposal is that CCP find itself increasingly out of options to maintain the revenue stream. I personally would prefer paying higher sub price, than witnessing this SP market go online.