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Dev Blog: Exploring The Character Bazaar & Skill Trading

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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#2101 - 2015-10-16 19:22:32 UTC
Why can't we reprocess corpses into very small amounts of un-allocated skill points, since we are talking about brain tissue grafts.
source: http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brain.jpg

To the victor the spoils right, and there is no clearer victory then Death Cool

Regards, a Freelancer

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
BlackWilk
Cloaked Goof
Goonswarm Federation
#2102 - 2015-10-16 19:23:27 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:


Would you be against respeccing without SP transfer?



i know the question wasnt at me but it was something i discussed with a corp mate. if it came at a fair cost, say once per year like respecing the attributes or a higher dollar value. i would not be against this. but it would also have the restrictions of it can only stay on a character. so moving sp from character A to character A. it would also make an interesting mechanic if you could only respec a certain amount at a time but i wouldnt consider it a requirement for me to agree.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2103 - 2015-10-16 19:25:13 UTC
'CCP Logibro'?


Moar like 'CCP Logi-'no'!


Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
General Lootit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2104 - 2015-10-16 19:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: General Lootit
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange happens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There is no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills.

Main source of concerns and side effects

Typical loyal customer with eleventy accounts
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2105 - 2015-10-16 19:27:16 UTC
BlackWilk wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:


Would you be against respeccing without SP transfer?



i know the question wasnt at me but it was something i discussed with a corp mate. if it came at a fair cost, say once per year like respecing the attributes or a higher dollar value. i would not be against this. but it would also have the restrictions of it can only stay on a character. so moving sp from character A to character A. it would also make an interesting mechanic if you could only respec a certain amount at a time but i wouldnt consider it a requirement for me to agree.
Why is everyone fine with paying additional money to a subscription game?

F2P mobile games are brainwashing the masses.

The battle is lost.


At least we're also getting new frigate toys to play with until the servers go dark.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
BlackWilk
Cloaked Goof
Goonswarm Federation
#2106 - 2015-10-16 19:27:37 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Why can't we reprocess corpses into very small amounts of un-allocated skill points, since we are talking about brain tissue grafts.
source: http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brain.jpg

To the victor the spoils right, and there is no clearer victory then Death Cool

Regards, a Freelancer



I LOVE THIS IDEA. i already have a creepy habit of collecting all the corpses i can :P. this would be a bit unfair on the miners. i would say if skill points are allowed to be bought on the market, this is a good way to do it. reprocess the corpse and either use the sp or sell them on the market. and they wouldnt be sold as packets but as actually individual sp units allowing for decent market fluctuation (meaning we are probably just looking at inflation like plex :P )
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#2107 - 2015-10-16 19:27:53 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

Moac Tor wrote:
It is not just a philosophical objection that the players have, the whole concept of eve has always been based around actions having consequences. That is what makes the gameplay interesting and stand out from other more generic MMORPGs. That is why I was asking why are you playing Eve.

Please explain to me why you think consequences for skill choices makes for interesting gameplay. What makes interesting gameplay are the choices players make in space and in the meta. Skill training is not gameplay. The consequences of skill training are simply an excuse to deny gameplay.

With SP flexibility, people have the option, albeit at prohibitive prices, to fly a ship they normally can't, immediately. The SP doesn't make them a better pilot, or guarantee in any way that they won't lose the ship.

"We've always done it like this" is a terrible reason, especially in EVE, for keeping a mechanic. It didn't work for clone grades. It won't work here.



See, that's an argument I agree with ... but not if the system would be implemented as proposed. If the balancing factor is just a prohibitive price, we're in pay2win territory.

Skill training is not game-play ! I absolutely agree. But the skill system is not just about becoming more proficient (dealing more damage, scanning faster ...) it's also about limiting players artificially to both encourage specialization in a field and also in staggering out content to which you get access to over time. There are plenty of multiplayer games where all of the content is available right away. In a military FPS you take the chopper, fly to a hill from where you snipe a couple targets before you sneak into the enemy base to steal a tank ... that's nice, but also limiting in its own way.

What eve is trying to achieve is that the helicopter pilot and tank driver are not also a sniper and detonation expert. This is limiting, but it also makes eve less generic.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2108 - 2015-10-16 19:28:00 UTC
Freelancer117 wrote:
Why can't we reprocess corpses into very small amounts of un-allocated skill points, since we are talking about brain tissue grafts.
source: http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brain.jpg

To the victor the spoils right, and there is no clearer victory then Death Cool

Regards, a Freelancer



Bad thing is, I could live with this lol.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2109 - 2015-10-16 19:29:23 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange hapens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills.
PLEX isn't pay2win. It's paying for someone else's subscription in exchange for ingame assets, freely agreed to by both parties.

It's a genius system, unlike this proposed mess.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2110 - 2015-10-16 19:29:32 UTC
General Lootit wrote:
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange hapens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills.


Sorry, no. Market transactions take place when all parties feel they are coming out ahead, it is a positive sum game. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
BlackWilk
Cloaked Goof
Goonswarm Federation
#2111 - 2015-10-16 19:30:45 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
BlackWilk wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:


Would you be against respeccing without SP transfer?



i know the question wasnt at me but it was something i discussed with a corp mate. if it came at a fair cost, say once per year like respecing the attributes or a higher dollar value. i would not be against this. but it would also have the restrictions of it can only stay on a character. so moving sp from character A to character A. it would also make an interesting mechanic if you could only respec a certain amount at a time but i wouldnt consider it a requirement for me to agree.
Why is everyone fine with paying additional money to a subscription game?

F2P mobile games are brainwashing the masses.

The battle is lost.


At least we're also getting new frigate toys to play with until the servers go dark.


I've bought plex once in my life and probably never will again. The debate wasnt whether the option of paying extra money to a sub gain was up for debate. if it was id get rid of the plex and aur system immediately. but if it must exist, i want it to be in a way that adds entertainment and value to people (skins and eye monocles) but wont break the game for those who either have lower paying jobs or put their money towards taking care of their family (i in no way intend for this to insinuate that others are irresponsible).
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2112 - 2015-10-16 19:32:38 UTC

Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Yes "wait to pvp" is how things have always been.

What "wait to pvp"? It's pilot skills, remember?


I put it in quotes. This means I didn't say it myself.

But you make a fair point.



Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#2113 - 2015-10-16 19:33:12 UTC
BlackWilk wrote:

I apologize if you are misunderstanding me. I will try to be more clear.

Paying for a ship does not guarantee you a win. Ill try the Barghest again. If you buy the ship but your missile skills only allow you a range of 30km, youre gonna lose. Paying for a ship and paying for the skills to fly that ship at maximum efficiency is greatly increasing the chance of success making it pay2win. Buy all the ships you want with your dollars. If you dont have the skills to fly them correctly ill destroy them all.

I was just pointing out a weird argument in your initial post. When you then agree with my counter-argument, I suppose it is fairly understandable, that I might have been confused by your statement.

As to the P2W element. The way EvE works, SP is not an important metric for deciding the strength of a character. This whole proposition, and many responses in this thread. Proves to me, that even after a decade of EvE, a vast majority are still overvaluing SP and perceive that more SP means a more "powerful" character. The character is not more powerful, it is only more versatile.

Combat in EvE resembles more a match of rock-paper-scissors, compared to a raw stat comparison. A character with less SP can still win over that 100M SP character, if they have the proper ship and knowledge. Combined with the fact, that getting skills to level 4 is not that long of a train and basically is 80% of the skill. Makes me take the stance, that this proposition is really not that bad as some might make it seem.

But something drastic needs to be done in order to attract new players. And this drastic something, will be hated by the general population of the game, since people will not always react rational, given the amount of time investment poured into their characters. But CCP is still a company, and needs revenue in order to keep EvE "Online" (see what I did there :D God, where did that bad pun come from?). Whether this is the solution, or something else is still up for debate. Personally, I think they are on the right track, that something needs to be done to the SP system.
BlackWilk
Cloaked Goof
Goonswarm Federation
#2114 - 2015-10-16 19:33:18 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange hapens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills.
PLEX isn't pay2win. It's paying for someone else's subscription in exchange for ingame assets, freely agreed to by both parties.

It's a genius system, unlike this proposed mess.


can i quote this the next time someone posts against me saying that im agree with pay2win even though im trying to be clear about the difference in my mind? :P
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#2115 - 2015-10-16 19:34:15 UTC
Sibyyl wrote:

'Represents'.. please elaborate without degenerating into buzzwords without explanations. No, I don't think you're stupid. You really should know that by now and I'm a bit miffed that you would think that.



Think that because that's what you are showing me right now.

Everything about this idea strikes me as wrong, I've explained as best I can why that is. Sorry if that isn't enough.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#2116 - 2015-10-16 19:34:24 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
General Lootit wrote:
So why Pay2Win mechanic like PLEX is no concern to Play2Winers? Maybe because exchange hapens in which all sides in winning position. Payers gets isks and not worried about earning PLEX , tryharders gets free sub, CCP gets money. In skill transfering case something goes wrong and some side does gaining nothing or even loosing. There no secret that veterans loosing their prestige so we need to reward them more than cost exchange of unwanted skills.
PLEX isn't pay2win. It's paying for someone else's subscription in exchange for ingame assets, freely agreed to by both parties.

It's a genius system, unlike this proposed mess.


Buying PLEX and selling it in game is a round-about method of buying ISK. Many consider buying in-game currencies in video games a type of "pay to win".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Mag's
Azn Empire
#2117 - 2015-10-16 19:36:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Mr Epeen wrote:
Some stray observations.

CCP said: We're getting rid of learning skills.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to add a skill queue
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to add a stat respec once a year.
The rabble said: You just killed the game. We're all quitting.

The game didn't die. The rabble are still here.

CCP said: We are going to add multiple character training.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to make it a little easier on newbs by giving them a few SP to play with at start-up.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

EVE is still here and so is the rabble.

CCP said: Were going to make SP trading a little less convoluted.
The rabble are saying: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

I predict that the game won't die and the rabble is going nowhere. And thank God for that. I do so look forward to threads like this.

Carry on, rabble. Carry on.

~ed~ Adding more as I think of them.

Mr Epeen Cool
Mr Epeen, rewriting history, one post at a time.

Please, do carry on.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#2118 - 2015-10-16 19:37:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Freelancer117 wrote:
Why can't we reprocess corpses into very small amounts of un-allocated skill points, since we are talking about brain tissue grafts.
source: http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Brain.jpg

To the victor the spoils right, and there is no clearer victory then Death Cool

Regards, a Freelancer



Bad thing is, I could live with this lol.

It actually seems like a great idea in comparison to what we have been discussing in this thread. Before this thread I would have said an outright no that is a terrible idea. Perhaps this was CCPs plan all along, then they tone it down and we are all happy because we have averted complete disaster. *chuckles*
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#2119 - 2015-10-16 19:37:36 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Some stray observations.

CCP said: We're going to add a skill queue
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We are going to add multiple character training.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

The game didn't die and the rabble didn't quit.

CCP said: We're going to make it a little easier on newbs by giving them a few SP to play with at start-up.
The rabble said: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

EVE is still here and so is the rabble.

CCP said: Were going to make SP trading a little less convoluted.
The rabble are saying: You just killed EVE! We're all going to quit!

I predict that the game won't die and the rabble is going nowhere. And thank God for that. I do so look forward to threads like this.

Carry on, rabble. Carry on.

Mr Epeen Cool


Ah a wise man.....funny how all of those thing improved eve to the point where server saturation can't be overlooked any more ....oh wait....

I'm sure this one is a right change...one that was missing all this time.

Too bad your thread statistic doesn't have usless noise % you would be suprised who's name would be there.

Of forgot

Rable rable.


On topic this is pay to win one step worse than current bazaar is never liked it like this even less.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2120 - 2015-10-16 19:37:45 UTC

Hi Alex. Good to see you're still around.

Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
In a nutshell, I'd say the skill system is about releasing content to the individual player over time, giving a reason to remain subscribed, including a sense of progression and character development.

Let's address each one of these.

  1. Reason to be subscribed. That's a CCP reason. What does this have to do with any of our arguments for or against?
  2. sense of progression. This still exists. Prerequisites are not going anywhere, and frankly no one has infinite resources such that all progression in the game is bypassed.
  3. character development. No I don't think stacking a bunch of skills in a list has anything to do with character or your development of it.



Quote:
I'm not against changes in the skill system, but I'm strongly against this change because it involves Aurum. It's not a new feature available to all (already paying) players, it's exclusive to those who dish out the cash to CCP. Don't like that at all.

But PLEX can be coverted to AUR.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.