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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

First post
Author
Kraxalious
Domini Caedis
#481 - 2015-08-30 22:32:15 UTC
Plex could be also rising because of the new SKINs. Since you can convert plex to AUR, this might be one avenue people are using to get them and helping drive up the price.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#482 - 2015-08-30 23:02:05 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
PLEX isnt ruining the game, its just an RMT by CCP, its in fact better if the price is rising, because you are making RMTers life outside the game harder. I mean those people who sell ISK for money.

Yeah but
PLEX is going up = EVE is Dying™
Less multi-boxing = EVE is Dying™
Yearly summer slump = EVE is Dying™
Quicker publishing cycles = EVE is Dying™
A miner got ganked today = EVE is Dying™
Someday EVE is going to dye = EVE is Dying™
PCU in off hours is lower than peak = EVE is Dying™
PCU is higher today than yesterday = EVE is Dying™
CCP won't remove skills and make level classes = EVE is Dying™
EVE is Dying™ just bcuz EVE is Dying™ becuz EVE is Dying™ = EVE is Dying™



You forgot:
WiS = EVE is Dying™
I got ganked by russians = EVE is Dying™
Lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™
Didnt lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™

(those are the new trend topics on EVE is Dying™)

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#483 - 2015-08-30 23:10:56 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
PLEX isnt ruining the game, its just an RMT by CCP, its in fact better if the price is rising, because you are making RMTers life outside the game harder. I mean those people who sell ISK for money.

Yeah but
PLEX is going up = EVE is Dying™
Less multi-boxing = EVE is Dying™
Yearly summer slump = EVE is Dying™
Quicker publishing cycles = EVE is Dying™
A miner got ganked today = EVE is Dying™
Someday EVE is going to dye = EVE is Dying™
PCU in off hours is lower than peak = EVE is Dying™
PCU is higher today than yesterday = EVE is Dying™
CCP won't remove skills and make level classes = EVE is Dying™
EVE is Dying™ just bcuz EVE is Dying™ becuz EVE is Dying™ = EVE is Dying™



You forgot:
WiS = EVE is Dying™
I got ganked by russians = EVE is Dying™
Lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™
Didnt lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™

(those are the new trend topics on EVE is Dying™)


You are wrong because Eve is Dying™. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#484 - 2015-08-30 23:13:17 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Bagrat Skalski wrote:
PLEX isnt ruining the game, its just an RMT by CCP, its in fact better if the price is rising, because you are making RMTers life outside the game harder. I mean those people who sell ISK for money.

Yeah but
PLEX is going up = EVE is Dying™
Less multi-boxing = EVE is Dying™
Yearly summer slump = EVE is Dying™
Quicker publishing cycles = EVE is Dying™
A miner got ganked today = EVE is Dying™
Someday EVE is going to dye = EVE is Dying™
PCU in off hours is lower than peak = EVE is Dying™
PCU is higher today than yesterday = EVE is Dying™
CCP won't remove skills and make level classes = EVE is Dying™
EVE is Dying™ just bcuz EVE is Dying™ becuz EVE is Dying™ = EVE is Dying™



You forgot:
WiS = EVE is Dying™
I got ganked by russians = EVE is Dying™
Lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™
Didnt lost my freighter in Uedama = EVE is Dying™

(those are the new trend topics on EVE is Dying™)


You are wrong because Eve is Dying™. P


Yes, you are right. EVE is Dying™.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#485 - 2015-08-30 23:33:09 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:


Yes, you are right. EVE is Dying™.


Half-Life 3 confirmed !

Oh, am I doing this wrong ?

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#486 - 2015-08-31 02:08:30 UTC
Kraxalious wrote:
Plex could be also rising because of the new SKINs. Since you can convert plex to AUR, this might be one avenue people are using to get them and helping drive up the price.

If this is the case I find it amusing how averse people are to paying real money for SKINs.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#487 - 2015-08-31 02:16:17 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Kraxalious wrote:
Plex could be also rising because of the new SKINs. Since you can convert plex to AUR, this might be one avenue people are using to get them and helping drive up the price.

If this is the case I find it amusing how averse people are to paying real money for SKINs.

imo they are pretty freaking expensive. especially for how often I am in any one ship, and how zoomed out I usually play. That said players overall have a lot of isk they don't really mind spending.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#488 - 2015-08-31 02:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
I think clothing should be bound to a character like SKINs. I also think apparel and SKINs shouldn't have market item entries. They should exist in account management only. That is, if it comes from the NES.

The move could be messy because there are stockpiles of apparel and SKINs. NES items could be refunded for their AUR value to keep the transition clean.

There's then the issue of AT and special event prizes that are coveted for their resale value. I will go back to my suggestion about shifting that paradigm to a general sale strategy. Instead of giving out limited edition vanity items and SKINs to a select few, offer those assets for real money to the general playerbase, and use the proceeds as prizes instead. Money has more appeal, to players outside EVE.

The NES and its items have the consistent trait of sabotaging their own values by existing on the in-game market. If they're affecting PLEX as well, perhaps it's time to do something about a system that harms the game with its life cycle.

There are items without AUR values that would be impractical to have several copies on one account. Phancas, for example, and promotional SKINs. Those would need to be reabsorbed into the redeeming system and treated like GTCs (I suppose), and traded on the forums.

Finally, remove the PLEX-> AUR conversion option since letting it stay leaves this hole in the **** wide open. Reverse it, even, allowing AUR to be redeemed for PLEX. Maybe even stop offering direct PLEX sales, straightening the flow of value to: Real Money -> AUR -> PLEX.

The only route to obtaining ISK for real money would be PLEX, like it used to be.

//this sounds crazy now that I've said it. I am assuming that AUR is affecting PLEX prices, and that it is harmful to the game. If those assumptions are wrong, my suggestion is excessive if not invalid.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#489 - 2015-08-31 02:21:06 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:


Yes, you are right. EVE is Dying™.


Half-Life 3 confirmed !

Oh, am I doing this wrong ?

Nah. Those two will most likely coincide.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#490 - 2015-08-31 03:23:59 UTC
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:


Yes, you are right. EVE is Dying™.


Half-Life 3 confirmed !

Oh, am I doing this wrong ?


Yes, because EVE is dying™. P

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#491 - 2015-08-31 05:54:16 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
I think clothing should be bound to a character like SKINs. I also think apparel and SKINs shouldn't have market item entries. They should exist in account management only. That is, if it comes from the NES.

The move could be messy because there are stockpiles of apparel and SKINs. NES items could be refunded for their AUR value to keep the transition clean.

There's then the issue of AT and special event prizes that are coveted for their resale value. I will go back to my suggestion about shifting that paradigm to a general sale strategy. Instead of giving out limited edition vanity items and SKINs to a select few, offer those assets for real money to the general playerbase, and use the proceeds as prizes instead. Money has more appeal, to players outside EVE.

The NES and its items have the consistent trait of sabotaging their own values by existing on the in-game market. If they're affecting PLEX as well, perhaps it's time to do something about a system that harms the game with its life cycle.

There are items without AUR values that would be impractical to have several copies on one account. Phancas, for example, and promotional SKINs. Those would need to be reabsorbed into the redeeming system and treated like GTCs (I suppose), and traded on the forums.

Finally, remove the PLEX-> AUR conversion option since letting it stay leaves this hole in the **** wide open. Reverse it, even, allowing AUR to be redeemed for PLEX. Maybe even stop offering direct PLEX sales, straightening the flow of value to: Real Money -> AUR -> PLEX.

The only route to obtaining ISK for real money would be PLEX, like it used to be.

//this sounds crazy now that I've said it. I am assuming that AUR is affecting PLEX prices, and that it is harmful to the game. If those assumptions are wrong, my suggestion is excessive if not invalid.


How about :
RM -> AUR
RM -> PLEX

ISK convertible via CCP into AUR (ISK sink combating inflation)
PLEX tradeable on market as it is now (player trade), but not convertible into AUR
AUR not tradeable or convertible, could only be used for Skins and apparel ...

Not that I like your idea (cheap clothing is what I like) ... but your idea makes too much sense to be ignored. So I added a little spin to it that would create an ISK sink. There is just the problem of LP shops offering clothing, which already is a small ISK sink, as you're paying with LP + ISK, which than both leave the game forever.

The next question would be: at what rate should ISK be converted to AUR ?
If it's not a fixed rate, what determines the rate ?

Overall it is likely that this idea of mine is bad, because it's not a reliable ISK sink. It's more like a pressure valve: if ingame prices for PLEX go up, it's cheap to get ISK which some may choose to convert into AUR to get Skins and apparel. That removes ISK from the game and thereby increases ISK value again.

I have to ponder this a little more ...

Hey Rain, we should get ourselves hired as game designers by CCP Blink. What would be your dev name ? I could be CCP X if it's not taken already.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#492 - 2015-08-31 07:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
Jill Xelitras wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
I think clothing should be bound to a character like SKINs. I also think apparel and SKINs shouldn't have market item entries. They should exist in account management only. That is, if it comes from the NES.

The move could be messy because there are stockpiles of apparel and SKINs. NES items could be refunded for their AUR value to keep the transition clean.

There's then the issue of AT and special event prizes that are coveted for their resale value. I will go back to my suggestion about shifting that paradigm to a general sale strategy. Instead of giving out limited edition vanity items and SKINs to a select few, offer those assets for real money to the general playerbase, and use the proceeds as prizes instead. Money has more appeal, to players outside EVE.

The NES and its items have the consistent trait of sabotaging their own values by existing on the in-game market. If they're affecting PLEX as well, perhaps it's time to do something about a system that harms the game with its life cycle.

There are items without AUR values that would be impractical to have several copies on one account. Phancas, for example, and promotional SKINs. Those would need to be reabsorbed into the redeeming system and treated like GTCs (I suppose), and traded on the forums.

Finally, remove the PLEX-> AUR conversion option since letting it stay leaves this hole in the **** wide open. Reverse it, even, allowing AUR to be redeemed for PLEX. Maybe even stop offering direct PLEX sales, straightening the flow of value to: Real Money -> AUR -> PLEX.

The only route to obtaining ISK for real money would be PLEX, like it used to be.

//this sounds crazy now that I've said it. I am assuming that AUR is affecting PLEX prices, and that it is harmful to the game. If those assumptions are wrong, my suggestion is excessive if not invalid.


How about :
RM -> AUR
RM -> PLEX

ISK convertible via CCP into AUR (ISK sink combating inflation)
PLEX tradeable on market as it is now (player trade), but not convertible into AUR
AUR not tradeable or convertible, could only be used for Skins and apparel ...

Not that I like your idea (cheap clothing is what I like) ... but your idea makes too much sense to be ignored. So I added a little spin to it that would create an ISK sink. There is just the problem of LP shops offering clothing, which already is a small ISK sink, as you're paying with LP + ISK, which than both leave the game forever.

The next question would be: at what rate should ISK be converted to AUR ?
If it's not a fixed rate, what determines the rate ?

Overall it is likely that this idea of mine is bad, because it's not a reliable ISK sink. It's more like a pressure valve: if ingame prices for PLEX go up, it's cheap to get ISK which some may choose to convert into AUR to get Skins and apparel. That removes ISK from the game and thereby increases ISK value again.

I have to ponder this a little more ...

Hey Rain, we should get ourselves hired as game designers by CCP Blink. What would be your dev name ? I could be CCP X if it's not taken already.

CCP Sucks or CCP Blows. I took a good long look at the games industry being an artist interested in 3D art and animation. Researched it for a solid six months. I've decided to pursue advertising as an artist rather than games.

Fixed rate of AUR cost in ISK is a good question. I'll need time with that one too.

LP availability isn't a problem, I don't think. Bind it to account or generate a redeeming code. Dunno.

ISK to AUR makes sense as a sink, as long as the AUR items remain off market.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#493 - 2015-08-31 07:17:23 UTC
ISK-> AUR rate could be a variable rate based on the market price of PLEX the previous day. AUR and PLEX both have real money prices. The only thing I feel strongly about is the rate not being fixed.
Avvy
Doomheim
#494 - 2015-08-31 08:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Rain6637 wrote:


ISK to AUR makes sense as a sink, as long as the AUR items remain off market.


Not really.

If you are going to keep shop items off of the market then you may as well get rid of Aurum altogether and use isk to buy those items, then they would be isk sinks.

The fact that Aurum was introduced suggests CCP wants those items tradable.


Edit:

However, with ship skins being a consumable their isk value is removed from the game when you use them and learn the ability and hence at that point act as an isk sink.

Whereas clothing not being a consumable is not an isk sink.


Edit2:

If you could add clothing to your wardrobe permanently then they would become an isk sink in the same fashion ship skins are.


Edit3:

In regards to the edit and edit2.

You could argue that using the item adds something to the character and because characters can be sold those additions could still be worth something, so technically the isk value wasn't lost.

I'll let you decide.
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#495 - 2015-08-31 09:07:32 UTC
Lets take off of EVE everything that people doesnt think is fair.

Oh, wait, if we do that, we just have to take off of eve EVERYTHING, because there is a person to criticise every aspect of EVE given enough time.

No wonder why EVE is dying™

The game is always said to be a sandbox made for players by players. That in itself says that options are the strenght.

Every decision must prioritize giving options first, keeping options then, and after those are impossible, take options away.

What you saying when you want to make people do stuff to keep players playing is actually do stuff to restrict options so players who came for the freedom will stay for the prison of mind ?

No wonder why EVE is dying™

Oh wait, devs are not dumbing down the game as Bliz does, and they are defending what is not democracy, but freedom, which is better.

And ...

EVE is not dying™

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.

Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#496 - 2015-08-31 09:09:29 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:


    • Aurum can be purchased directly, and always gives you more Aurum/Dollar than buying a PLEX and converting that to Aurum.
    • Aurum packages start at around $5 meaning there are options for people looking to make ISK or supplement their normal ISK income by reselling items from the NES.
    • We do want to remove extraneous services from PLEX and have done so already. Many of the services you listed (multi-character training and character resculpt) are sold in the NES for Aurum, at a rate that is favourable to buy them for Aurum rather than PLEX. Many of these items have also been separated out in the in-game market, meaning you can purchase these services directly from the market for ISK.
    • Globally, there is always more ISK coming in to the game than going out, which means over time inflation will occur, especially in "gold-standard" items such as PLEX which will never really lose their value (i.e they don't get rebalanced or nerfed).
    • When prices do skyrocket for short periods of time, we monitor the subscription rate carefully to see if we need to intervene with a sale of some sort, or let the fluctuation smooth itself out.



CCP Terminus in another topic about PLEX/Aurum.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
#497 - 2015-08-31 09:29:14 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:


    • Aurum can be purchased directly, and always gives you more Aurum/Dollar than buying a PLEX and converting that to Aurum.
    • Aurum packages start at around $5 meaning there are options for people looking to make ISK or supplement their normal ISK income by reselling items from the NES.
    • We do want to remove extraneous services from PLEX and have done so already. Many of the services you listed (multi-character training and character resculpt) are sold in the NES for Aurum, at a rate that is favourable to buy them for Aurum rather than PLEX. Many of these items have also been separated out in the in-game market, meaning you can purchase these services directly from the market for ISK.
    • Globally, there is always more ISK coming in to the game than going out, which means over time inflation will occur, especially in "gold-standard" items such as PLEX which will never really lose their value (i.e they don't get rebalanced or nerfed).
    • When prices do skyrocket for short periods of time, we monitor the subscription rate carefully to see if we need to intervene with a sale of some sort, or let the fluctuation smooth itself out.



CCP Terminus in another topic about PLEX/Aurum.


Thanks. Very helpful information indeed.

Don't anger the forum gods.

ISD Buldath:

> I Saw, I came, I Frowned, I locked, I posted, and I left.

Avvy
Doomheim
#498 - 2015-08-31 09:51:23 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:

The game is always said to be a sandbox made for players by players. That in itself says that options are the strenght.




Yeah, options/choices are what sandboxes are all about. If you were directed to play in a certain manner then it wouldn't be a sandbox (i.e. questlines in other games, which you have to complete to progress in the game).

Sandboxes allow a character to be able to train everything, not predefined rolls like priest, mage, warrior etc.

But a PvP sandbox differs from a PvE sandbox, in so much as, you can choose what you want to do in-game but you can't choose what someone else wants to do to you.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#499 - 2015-08-31 09:59:20 UTC
Avvy, one of the first lines in my effortpost was about making clothing bound to the character and consumed like SKINs Pirate

PLEX may have been removed from secondary purposes, except they can still be redeemed for AUR. That's appealing even if a player isn't particularly spacerich if, for example, they sub annually and simply want to grind the ISK for a PLEX for AUR. I have to disagree with Terminus' statement that PLEX has been isolated. Perhaps the subtext is that pressure on PLEX due to AUR conversion is negligible.
Avvy
Doomheim
#500 - 2015-08-31 10:09:12 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Avvy, one of the first lines in my effortpost was about making clothing bound to the character and consumed like SKINs Pirate



Ok, I only read your responses in post #492 and answered the part I quoted.

I'll make a point of reading the rest.