EVE General Discussion

There is no sandbox pve and pvp, sandbox is sandbox. IF you are for some reason limited to engage in direct conflict with another player, it stops being a sandbox to be a sand"garrison" (admite it, you liked that).

PvP in EVE takes many forms, still on the sandbox thing, and the idea that you may choose to do something others try to prevent you from doing is exactly like the literal sandbox idea. You cant choose what someone do to you, but you can choose the way to respond to that. Either you fight, cooperate or give up. Then, either you accept your loss and move on, go for payback, or cry in the forums.

That is valid for firefight, market fight, concept wars and ideology wars.

Some people from some parts of the World have a real hard time to understand that Democracy is not Freedom, Freedom is not the ability to do anything, and Order is not the opposite of Chaos.

If you make clothes and skins only useable by the player buying from the shop, then you would create a definite isk sink. But there would be no need to have Aurum as you could just use isk instead.

Seems to me Aurum was introduced as a means of buying items that did not exist in the game until you purchased them so that the items purchased could be traded on the in-game market. So if CCP went to the trouble of Aurum they do want those items tradable. If you're going to use Aurum then you need a way of converting isk to Aurum and Aurum to isk.




I don't see AT and special event prizes as being an issue, if they want to sell them they should be able to. You need incentives for players to want to do those events, otherwise why should they bother.




Aurum provides a means to make shop items tradable. Without Aurum the only trading would be in the case of someone ending up with an item they didn't require and trying to sell it for 1 isk less than the shop, which would be the same as in the case of NPC sold skill books.

The items purchased from the shop will have a different value from those sold on the in-game market. That's quite normal the in-game price can be lower or higher than the shop price. Getting items as incentives to subscribing and those items also being available on the shop will lower the in-game value.




No, you don't want to be trading via the forums when it can be done on the in-game market.




Aurum is a currency, PLEX is an in-game item, you can't reverse it.

Lets get semantic again.

PvP is only possible when you have multiplayer. So there is no "pvp single player sandbox".

The fact that you have a multiplayer sandbox will, whether holding pvp direct fight or not, promote the competition between players for the resources and space shared by the time run. So there is not "pve multiplayer sandbox", as the acts of the other players in a persistent universe will always influence yours, and even without fighting you, they can get resources first, or otherwise preventing you from getting it.

That is the thing people in EVE have a hard time to understand. PVP has many forms, and it is not because I am not shooting you that I am not destroying you.

PvP and PvE sandboxes are the same except for one thing, which is you can't choose what someone else wants to do with you.


So Malt, what would you call a PvP sandbox as I describe in the line above?

Your interpretation is correct, but you are still incorrect in the use of the term PvP. What you are describing is commonly called competitive PvE.

PvP is used to describe player interactions that are specifically intended to cause other players a direct loss.

Competitive PvE is when one cannot cause others a direct loss, but still has some kind of influence on each other.

It is in fact impossible to have an MMO without competitive PvE as long as there is some form of communication between the players. Even when players can only interact by communicating through chats will this eventually lead to some kind of competition among the players. It is simply in our nature if you so will.

Of course, competitive PvE can sometimes become so intense that it is interpreted as PvP even when it is two players who are fighting against the clock and not directly each other. The fight against the other player then just might happen in one of the player's head while the other one may not even notice the presence of the other player.

And in an environment where resources are shared do some players commonly say that the other player has taken it away from them before they could get to it. This is another one of those situations where competitive PvE gets interpreted as PvP. Fact however is that if you never had the resource and somebody else got there first then it is not a loss, because in order to lose something does one first need to posses it.

HERE @19:45

CCP itself calls the healthy markets a "TRUE PVP COMPETITION"

Just because you want to call it something else doesn't mean it isn't PVP.

Guess it depends on the country and if the culture is buying or renting. Also would depend on how much the land is worth that comes with the house.


My house is worth 4 times what I paid for it. Doubt I would have made that anywhere else.

Well, it is not. It is pep talk. CCP may only not want the traders to feel left out of the PvP game even when we all know that most of them just sit docked at a station and so CCP just calls it a "true pvp competition", probably knowing quite well how little true it really is...

You do not cause anyone a loss by buying or selling items over the market. The moment a seller puts an item up for sale does it become part of the environment and anyone can buy it, but they cannot see who put it there. Nor can the seller direct the sale or deny a specific player the right to purchase the item. So even when it is two players, who are exchanging items, is there a layer of the environment in between them and they cannot cause a direct loss to each other.

It is then no different when two sellers compete with each other for the better price. They still only interact with the environment even when a seller might feel he is about to make a loss. It would however only be a self-inflicted loss just as one can trash a ship, but it still would not make it PvP.

When you google it, one of the results is this precise thread, along with a lot of people saying exact the same and exact the opposite of what is said here by anyone.

Again, people have a hard time understanding that Democracy is not freedom, Learning is not Knowing, Educating is not Elucidating, and Order is not the opposite of Chaos.

Your myopic and naïve view on this game and the activities in it are baffling.