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Decline in numbers... starting to turn into RAPID!!!

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Solecist Project
#3021 - 2015-12-27 09:07:33 UTC
Cam Me'Leone wrote:
Want to stop suicide ganking? Give producers a way to fight back? Allow me to choose who I sell to. Let me put corps like the one that ganked me tonight on a "no buy" list. I wonder how long they would last when their victims cut off their supply.
Carebear logic.

It doesn't work that way. PvPers are perfectly willing and capable of having mining and industrial alts.
It's PvErs who for some reason believe that their narrow mindedness when it comes to gameplay ...
... also applies to PvPers as well.

Whooops, nope, it doesn't.


TL;DR: No one needs you, we can provide for ourselves.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3022 - 2015-12-27 09:08:27 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:

So this basically means we need to gank new players for our future. I think I have a new calling.

Funnily enough, there is zero proof that ganking players causes them to stay also.
There is a basic correlation between players that stayed and players that experienced PvP, but that is meaningless data at the depth CCP actually went into it because it says nothing about cause, effect or hours of play. We have no idea how many of those players in those statistics were played for 1 hour and the person decided they didn't like EVE and left. We have no idea how many of those who experienced PvP had already decided to stay no matter what happened before the PvP, or if they put 100 hours into EVE on their first week, and that's why they experienced PvP because they spent so much time in EVE.

It's about as accurate as the premise of this thread though, so I guess it's a fitting argument for here, i.e. totally wrong.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3023 - 2015-12-27 09:12:45 UTC
From my own expierience, falling for a suspect bait in my first week of playing EvE has definitely helped keeping my interest ...IMO suicide ganks are also a very necessary Darwin test, separating those who can adapt and think "sandbox" from those who will never understand and whine about bad mechanics, and (hopefully) quit.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3024 - 2015-12-27 09:25:10 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
I guess it's a fitting argument for here, i.e. totally wrong.

At least I have analytical data to support my argument. You have... an opinion.

Oh god.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3025 - 2015-12-27 09:27:08 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:

At least I have analytical data to support my argument. You have... an opinion.

Except you don't. And the fact you try and point at that as 'support' or 'proof' shows you have no understanding of what a statistical correlation actually means.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3026 - 2015-12-27 09:33:16 UTC
No, the data clearly supports my argument. Your only argument is that you think it's wrong, without having the data to counter it.

Oh god.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3027 - 2015-12-27 09:33:57 UTC
You can't just look at one graph & base your entire argument off of that one graph. If you have a gander at all of them the picture becomes pretty clear: It's all about community.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3028 - 2015-12-27 09:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Riot Girl wrote:
No, the data clearly supports my argument. Your only argument is that you think it's wrong, without having the data to counter it.

My argument is that it shows nothing. Because it's simply an interesting correlation that bears a further look at it.
It's simply a commonality between two traits and says nothing about which is cause and which is effect, or if a third different trait is the actual cause for both effects.
It says nothing more than 'people in group A experienced this more than people in group B.'.

Interesting to be sure, but it doesn't support or prove anything, for any side of the argument. It's simply insufficient to draw conclusions off it and any attempt to do so, especially such simplistic conclusions, is bound to be wrong.
It may be that particular types of PvP, or exposure to PvP in a specific environment helps retain players, it may simply be a neutral factor, it may even be a negative factor but because the 'players who left' included so many who only played EVE for 30 minutes before quitting it appears to be a positive.

For example of other questions needed to actually come up with a good indication.
'Graph the breakdown of players who quit after PvP vs Players who stayed after PvP by number of hours played when they experienced PvP'.
'Graph the number of hours played in the first day/week/month with those who stayed or quit'.
'Graph the players who joined either a corp or a player made channel by those who stayed or quit'
The average number of hours played.
The number of words typed to other players vs staying or quitting.

Analyze these graphs for trends, and then you might be starting to actually get enough evidence to say 'x supports y' if every single graph says the same trend consistently.
If CCP send me the raw data and are willing to pay for the number of hours needed to actually analyze that much data in that depth, then I'd make a start. As for telling people how to play, go look at someone else. I haven't told you you can't gank people, just that you don't have any proof that ganking people is good for the game, and especially that there aren't even better things for the game even if it is 'good'.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3029 - 2015-12-27 09:40:01 UTC
Well when you analyse the data and come up with some facts, I might take a look at what you've found. Either way, doesn't mean you can dictate how others want to play.

Oh god.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3030 - 2015-12-27 09:43:34 UTC
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
PsiMin
Ranger Industries
The Rogue Consortium
#3031 - 2015-12-27 09:55:28 UTC
Pravius wrote:
Just a few thoughts from a long time vet(beta player)

eve seems to have lost direction as of late many of the changes just dont make as much sense.

wish eve never added supers and instead added more diverse capitol ships this would have created a much more dynamic pvp setting.

T3 cruisers have broken the game in so many ways its not even funny, they would have been better off adding t3 mods that where built from WH stuffs than these broken OP t3 ships.

they economy has become so out of wack the game has become too risk adverse and people are much less willing to fight due to huge cost of ships and mods.....

as far as new players are concerned i think 2 things have destroyed eves ability to bring in new players..... 1st suicide ganking in empire(have done this plenty myself) but still think it needs to go #1 reason why new players go MEH im done.. 2nd the empire war system changes have become cancerous creating a culture of griefing(this creates more problems with economy)

the new sov war system is MEH and has created a stale 0.0 experience.

FW should be a huge entry point to PVP for new players but instead has created a LP farming paradise with meh PVP.

Changes i would make if i had a say in it are pretty simple and might get flamed but i like to think my experience in the game helps me make objective opinions

1st..... remove the ability to fire at players in high sec without wardec(i know huge bear but think about it... if we want new players to every venture out of empire or stay long enough to become part of the community or drive ship costs down enough to encourage pvp in low/null sec we need to do this).

In part I agree but not to fire, the griefing to stop (as soon as a ship gets attacked Concord responds in 1-2 seconds, they take out the aggressor while protecting the victim (shield bots, shield booster or something)

2nd..... rework the war system to keep the market hub griefers at bay.... limit the ammount of active wars and charge more for every war after 3 limit to 5 total.... look im a huge fan of PVP and smashing peoples internet spaceships i created INFOD one of the original pirate corps. but i also understand i want to keep playing this game for a long time and to do this we need to keep new players around long enough to learn how the game works rather than drive them off.

No limits but the more they do the more they cost

3rd..... FIX FW get rid of this stupid LP farming system that forces everyone to fly around in WC stabed frigs and encourage PVP this is a great way to get players into the PVP aspect of the game and should be a great recruiting tool for 0.0 alliances.

50/50

4th.... fix hisec mining(i wont be cought dead in a barge but understand it) alot of this can be fixed with cutting down/limiting suicide ganking in high sec but we need to get more minerals into the economy to bring ships costs down and increase PVP lost cost = more pew plan and simple.

Minerals there is enough, mining barges Ret, Hulk etc are useless due to low EHP.


i know lot of the 0.0 players feel that they most reward should be for 0.0 players and i understand that because it also offers the most risk playstyle but what most of them dont understnad is new players dont start in 0.0 and if eve doesnt fix empire we will keep seeing its playerbase dwindle.....

there are many more thoughts i have had about the state of the game and how to fix it but feel this would be a great start for CCP and help get newer players into the game





I started Eve back in 2003 with this char first, over a period I have now got 6 accounts, some in null and a few carebears when I want to be lazy and not be glued to local and intel chat :)

Eve is good but its not great and some of the points above are valid, one of my mining chars in high sec for the low end ores helps out newbie chars but ive seen it all to often that they get grief killed for no reason but to grief a new player and get a easy kill. For me there is no Honour in ganking a defenceless ship in high sec just because the game mechanics allow it to happen (low, WH or NS - open game kill anything) a new player most times does not have the isk reserve that most vets do, so what happens when they lose there Crusier, BC, Mining Barge etc. They go off and play another game.

this is where WoW comes in to place, although I hate to admit I have played it for about a year when I had a break from Eve I found it enjoyable but not for me, However there were 20 x the people in the game. When im on a roam in Null or low I can go 10 systems or more without seeing someone, if there was even a 5 million player base the odds would be a lot better.

The more people we have in the game, the more money CCP will earn, the more people they can employ to develop the game, look at what a small 20 man corp would bring in compared to a 300 man corp. In order for Eve to carry on which I hope it does we need many more people but they need to get a food hold in the game so that they are prepared to then move in to what role they want.

Eve has i feel got Stale, I remember when I used to go to Fanfest the first ones was in 2008 - 2009 were great, the last one in 2013 did not have the same feel so I haven't been since, I do miss meeting friends though :(
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3032 - 2015-12-27 09:56:28 UTC
Actually, I'll grant him that. The data only shows that players who get ganked stay, it doesn't show that they stay as a direct result of being ganked. I'm sure there are many that do, I'm one of them. However, that is a point worth making. The main point of the data, however, is that new players aren't leaving because they're getting ganked. Less than 1% of all players that unsubscribe cite that as the reason they leave. And that doesn't account for the people that resubscribe later.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3033 - 2015-12-27 09:58:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

Doesn't matter really. If I want to believe I'm doing the world a favour by ganking noobs, well I wouldn't be the most delusional person in Eve, would I?

Oh god.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3034 - 2015-12-27 09:58:48 UTC
PsiMin wrote:
Eve has i feel got Stale, I remember when I used to go to Fanfest the first ones was in 2008 - 2009 were great, the last one in 2013 did not have the same feel so I haven't been since, I do miss meeting friends though :(


Even with the apparent decline this year, there are still more people in EVE than there were in 2008-9.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3035 - 2015-12-27 10:05:36 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

Doesn't matter really. If I want to believe I'm doing the world a favour by ganking noobs, well I wouldn't be the most delusional person in Eve, would I?


No, picking on new players just makes you a ****.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#3036 - 2015-12-27 10:09:58 UTC
Pretty sure that was established quite some time ago, but thanks for the moral guidance.

Oh god.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3037 - 2015-12-27 10:13:28 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

Doesn't matter really. If I want to believe I'm doing the world a favour by ganking noobs, well I wouldn't be the most delusional person in Eve, would I?


No, picking on new players just makes you a ****.


Pretty sure she's just joking around dude.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Top Guac
Doomheim
#3038 - 2015-12-27 11:06:45 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

Doesn't matter really. If I want to believe I'm doing the world a favour by ganking noobs, well I wouldn't be the most delusional person in Eve, would I?


No, picking on new players just makes you a ****.

Is "goon" a censored word in the forum now?
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3039 - 2015-12-27 11:17:51 UTC
Top Guac wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm wondering how long it will take you both to realize that you are both partially correct & incorrect.

Doesn't matter really. If I want to believe I'm doing the world a favour by ganking noobs, well I wouldn't be the most delusional person in Eve, would I?


No, picking on new players just makes you a ****.

Is "goon" a censored word in the forum now?


Roll

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3040 - 2015-12-27 11:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Celthric Kanerian
December 27-12-2015
10477 people online... IN THE ******* MORNING.

I think that is pretty good, if I may say so.


Edit:

Same day, just several hours later and now there are 32289 players online, in the evening... We are still awaiting the Americans, Canadiens and South Americans to finish their breakfast.