EVE General Discussion

Have you considered that not everybody plays to "win"?

LOL, irrelevant? Come on! All your judgement is based on "win" and you think that the fact that people does not play to win is irrelevant?

Since they don't play to win, then they are not interested on whether they bash or not NPCs in easymode or whatever. That is YOUR narrow minded view of the matter as someone who thinks that winning in a videogame is relevant to the identity of other people...

One can not ever detach someone's behaviour from someone's self.
"He just likes it" is the equivalent of saying "I do not know what causes him to feel that way but I accept that it is like it is, because I don't know better". Alternatively it's like believing that people dress completely randomly and that there is absolutely no connection between their taste and their personality. That's simply not how things work.

It's not about the killing or losing, it's about the feelings the person gets from their actions.

When I pop Indah's autopiloting pod and she contacts me about how I am a loser for shooting at defenseless people and rages at me for whatever reason, then that is CLEARLY a sign of self esteem issues. There is no denying that, no matter how much you want to spin it. And it is easily noticable if someone is genuinly butthurt or simply playing and pretending to be.

I have had my fair share of people who went totally batshit insane at me just for mentioning that I am/was a suicide ganker. They stopped caring/liking me immediately and some sick hate-patterns emerged, exposing who the person really is.

I never got any feelings from people who I kill. I did it for a purpose, which had nothing to do with me.
It was all about killing them simply because they deserve it. When you deliberately expose yourself to danger,
then you absolutely deserve that danger coming to you.

Yet I had to read people telling me I'm a loser, I pray only on easy-targets, I'm not a real PvPer (lol), etc. etc.

What needs to be looked at is the feelings of the person doing things. A carebear going crazy about other people shooting someone who does not defend himself absolutely HAS personal issues, just like a suicide ganker has personal issues for deliberately trying to make others feel bad, including additionally rubbing salt into the injury.

Anyone who claims that people *just* behave somehow for no reason completely ignores that people absolutely never have and never will behave in a random fashion. Being unaware of these reasons "just for fun/I like it" does not mean they do not exist.


TL;DR: Just because a person seems nice to you, does not mean the person really is nice deep down. You do not know until you tickle it and force them to unintentionally remove their social mask.

I wished I have recorded/screenshottet all the conversations I had with people....

Anyhow ... good attitude. Changing this game for some weird minded people who are delusionally disconnected from reality indeed would not do it any good. And you're definitely not weird minded, because you realize that indeed it would harm the game more than it would do any good. :)

Anyhow, it's really easy to spot them.
Just do or say something that goes against their own belief/actions and see how they react.

People even paid me good ISK to expose bad apples in their corp ...
... because I'm super efficient at doing so. :D


Anyhow ... thank you for not being a crazy person, like some others here.

Popping those things are not the problem.
But being surprised when victims get angry? Getting angry is natural and not a self esteam issue.
All PvPlers must now this.
So if someone goes nuclear, just ignore it. You caused it.
Does not matter if the victim was just stupid.

Pay respect to others.

But those "babysealclubbers-mainly", they do have this self-esteam issue. They need to be forced into PvP that means PvP not just shoot demilitarised others.

siiiiigh...
which is not that easy either, since much of the fun is, disturbing the production of the enemy early.

i concur!

Again, what might get more players?

That question as stated is invalid,
because ignoring quality for quantity is a surefire way into killing the game.


We can argue about this.

I am Sol and I'm an elitist jerk. I'm an elitist jerk in real life as well, but that's not important.
I'm a successfull elitist jerk and above average within the realms of EVE ONLINE.

I loved this game for being a game for elitist jerks.
99% of the people who played during or before my prime absolutely were elitist jerks one way or another,
simply because the game demanded that you are, because it was really hard and unforgiving.

Average, or below average, people simply were not cut to make it in this game. The only average people
who made it did ascend into being elitist jerks and they absolutely deserved to be proud of that,
because it exposed them as actually smart, thinking individuals.


NOW the game is being changed for people who *need* it easier than those who did NOT need it easier.

Think about that for a minute. Please!

Ten years ago the game was batshit hard to start, but people made it. People wanted to. People loved the challenge.
Of course that means there's not that many people playing it, but it worked and people joined for years to come.

For years! Subscription numbers only ever went up. Up up up up up.

All these people back then did NOT need it easier!


So ... What does that tell you about the people who do ?


Please think about it and be honest when answering the question.

I believe it is a cost problem, not a content one.

Subscription models are becoming less and less feasible.

Lowering subscription fees would help, but only so much.

What they could do is keep the sub model but do not make it mandatory.

First make it so the freebies can only play one client at a time per IP address.

Next, give subers training on more that one account.

Next make science and manufacturing available to only subs as well as PI and POS.

Keep plex in game for these benefits, but not required.

That way there be more targets, but you won't be able to mess up the economy since freebies won't be able to manufacture anything.

His overall point is pretty good, but I'd stop short of giving subscribers game-breaking benefits just for subscribing or making the game incredibly terrible for anyone that doesn't. Aside from that I don't see EVE being a viable fit for a free to play/MT transition. Servers cost money to run & I don't see the real money for crappy ship skin/crappy avatar item being a big money maker in a game full of people that have no end of pixel cash.

Before this topic devolves into a state that gets locked, just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents. Played EVE for 6 years.... been gone 18 months... am back about 2 hours. I left partly because with 4 accounts, I sort of overwhelmed myself with tedium. Nothing special. The game became this huge chore and it just wasn't fun anymore. A lot of that came from trying to PLEX accounts in high sec and the ever-increasing grind that required. I had less free time in RL and game chores were eating up all of it pretty much. Something had to give. But also with the new release schedule, it felt like the game was constantly changing. I had a hard time keeping up with all that ... much less providing feedback. Plus EVE is the first and only MMO I had ever played. So I had a genuine curiosity about what other games were out there.

I took a break from gaming for a couple months. But eventually I found myself mindlessly clicking Diablo 3 and decided I'd see what all the WoW fuss was about. That sure didn't last. Nevermind the fact that the game is oversimplified and cartoonish, everyone I met took themselves way too seriously. (You're playing a gnome. Take a step back.) I leveled up a few characters (I seemed to like creating characters more than actually playing them) but after a couple months, it bored me to tears. So then I ran off to SW:TOR. And, it was... OK. It really felt like no matter what class I created, it was the same thing over and over. So, that didn't last either. I tried STO....a game that wishes it had EVE's graphics. And, most recently, I made my way to ESO just to see what that's about. So for about a month now I've been contemplating my next grand adventure.

I've been getting these "Come Back to EVE" e-mails every now and again.... but so infrequently that they got lost in the shuffle usually. You could probably spam these a little more considering they go out to former players. I rarely saw any EVE banner ads (AdBlock) but what I did see is a continuing stream of news articles. Forbes writes up about one a month and they show up in my Yahoo! news feed. The most recent one was just a couple weeks ago... some guy lost a titan I guess (I tried to find it.) A couple weeks before that there was one about the EVE monument which had me reflecting that my name is on that thing. And I can say with some certainty that the news reporting is what pulled me back in. No other game shows up in my news headlines or has the real-world implications that warrant it. Reading these sparked an emotional response; there was a real sense of nostalgia. I was part of that. I want to be part of that.

EVE may be a niche game but it is great when it knows this and isn't trying to become something it isn't. New Eden should never be safe. Calls to have any part of EVE pvp-free should continue to be ignored. What I would recommend is to avoid "dumbing down" things as much as possible. What I found when I went off mmo testing was a notable lack of complexity. Maybe because EVE was the first mmo I played, I'm ruined for life - I dunno. But I expect complexity now. I suspect anyone else in the same situation - who seeks an intelligent game with consequences - will also arrive at a similar conclusion: that this game is unique. And, in reading these news articles, there's probably ideas to be had (and trolls to be avoided) in the comment sections. A common complaint was with regard to the new player experience. After finishing the tutorials, folks didn't know what to do. Another was about how folks reading these articles believe they can't "catch up" or be effective in-game without investing years and years. That's probably due to the fact that most press is generated when a null sec battle royale goes down and to the uninitated, it can look rather daunting.

So better outreach, complexity, EVE is pvp, and engaging commenters in the press. That's all I came up with.

Glad to be back.

Yonis Kador