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Dev blog: I feel safe in Citadel city

First post
Author
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-08-13 18:17:57 UTC
I really don't see how and why anyone will be using the new citadels the way they are designed now.
You still loss 10% of the value if you want your stuff back. They get delivered to a RANDOM NPC station. So if you have stuff in multiple citadels the stuff can and will be delivered to multiple NPC stations.
NPC Stations are not safe and null sec people do not live there. At least not the people who setup citadels in null sec.

You need to fix everything that is broken around the FozzieSov mechanics first before you release more features that are based on an utterly broken mechanic.

Main Issues I see is the random NPC station part. And 10% value is a bit much. When I think about how much stuff null sec people and long term players and payers have this is just not gonna work.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#82 - 2015-08-13 18:28:55 UTC
Cynica Deetric wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
So CCP choose to ignore wormholes - Again.

Could You please tell me WHY would a WH group choose to attack another WH??? Main recompensation for booooring weekend was phat loot, and its gone (dont even mention the petty drop of minerals - few billion tops).

If that players want loot they dont get it, if they want to evict someone they will just comes back week later with new citadel and regain all lost stuff and essentially rebuild with a click of a button.

So not only the time it takes to take down structures huuugly increased (with balanced timeslots - 6hour per day - XL structure will be destroyed after almost a week when second reinforcment will end) WH will became stangant farmville where everyone farms because they will fill invulnerable. their assets will be safe unless someone else will move in and decide to stay in system.

And im not talking about attacking small entity, Im talking about attacking large one in both sides prime time.

So instead of one weekend op we end up with a week long deployment with no reward for it.

Can we have a WH Citadel roundtable/townhall or something so we can discuss this? No promise that it wont end up just like FozzieSov roundtable few days ago :P


The more poeple in WH space = more targets for pvp. The more isk poeple have the more isk stupid poeple will put onto their ships because purple is better rite?



One could only hope that would be the case. But what is more probable outcome they will just hoard isk, except for the few individuals that bling their ships anyway.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#83 - 2015-08-13 18:36:57 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped

No, Id rather be in space in a cloaky scanning interceptor.

Maybe everyone can specify an "escape craft", a ship currently in their inventory at the structure. If the citadel explodes while they are docked, that escape craft is dumped into space at a random location, with the pilot in it, irrelevant of what they last docked up with.

The designated escape craft would persist from log in to log in, until such time as you are docked and that ship is not present. Then it defaults to whatever you last docked up with.

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Anthar Thebess
#84 - 2015-08-13 18:50:20 UTC
CCP again, what about regions where nearest NPC stations are in NPC null space?
For esoteria/ paragon soul - the closest NPC space is Stain - sometimes 5 jumps away , and not Tash-Murkon , that is not even in direct jump range of Stain for the capital ships.

You need to include NPC null regions in asset evacuation points.

Don't also touch NPC nullsec stations if you are not changing lowsec and higsec stations.

This is also NPC space that have its own rules and provide different type of game play.
Mercer Nen
Summicron Holdings
#85 - 2015-08-13 18:59:05 UTC
Honestly these magical mechanics are terrible. If you're going to make things destructible then just do it. This halfway nonsense of creating mechanics that make no logical sense (magic delivery) is really poor. There should always be an immersive element to all mechanics.

This asset safety stuff maybe makes sense for hi sec. But for everywhere else it is incredibly uninspired. Apologies for being so harsh but it is very frustrating to see game systems being designed that are completely devoid of any EVE universe immersive elements. Maybe if the envoironment that these citadels will be built in had more meaning players would have more incentive to build them? As opposed to the current theme of building mechanics that are completely abstract and disconnected from a futuristic science fiction universe (latest sov system, entosis magic wand, magic delivery of assets).

Hire some more writers for goodness sake.
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Dracarys.
#86 - 2015-08-13 19:00:21 UTC
My feedback is that I confer the weight of my opinion to my leadership and elected CSMs.
Opner Dresden
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#87 - 2015-08-13 19:04:09 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.



Does that mean they can be unanchored and moved while not reinforced? The ROI on these looks horrible if it's a one time deployable that can also be destroyed.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#88 - 2015-08-13 19:16:05 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped

I think it would be reasonable to log back in in whatever ship you had active at the time. If you didn't have a ship active then yes you log back in in your pod.
Might this mean that you are caught in a totally unsuitable ship, absolutely.

The 'downside' you could use for this is that it's an emergency jump that the citadel itself forces you through, so you get jump fatigue as if you just did a jump or something like that. So if you already had jump fatigue it might be a significant cost.

But otherwise logging off for a weekend has to be done in an NPC station as the cost is too high even if you don't lose your active ship, you still have to pay through the nose to recover it simply for logging off for a few days.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#89 - 2015-08-13 19:16:57 UTC
Quote:
For low and null-security structures, that will be the closest low-security NPC station. Please note the exact destination will be picked automatically to minimize potential for abuse.


why not NPC 0.0 stations/regions?
npc 0.0 wil make more sense, since tehy are closer most of the time, also this will stop any form of abuse of the system for "free" delivery of your stuff to empire
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2015-08-13 19:16:57 UTC
Opner Dresden wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.



Does that mean they can be unanchored and moved while not reinforced? The ROI on these looks horrible if it's a one time deployable that can also be destroyed.


Yes you can unanchor them provided they are not under attack. They will immediately enter a vulnerable state and at the end will eject the personal assets to safety, kickout the docked pilots into space and the unanchor to be scooped.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones

naed21
Iron Knights
#91 - 2015-08-13 19:19:45 UTC
If I'm reading this correctly, assets are never moved out of a WH when the structure is destroyed. This means you can seed ships in whs and then when you anchor a new structure suddenly have a ton of capital ships out of no where.

It's certainly possible for a group to setup a large structure in every c6 wh, fill them with dreads and carriers, and then blow them up so that in the future they can attack the new residents with this large capital force.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#92 - 2015-08-13 19:25:23 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Opner Dresden wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.



Does that mean they can be unanchored and moved while not reinforced? The ROI on these looks horrible if it's a one time deployable that can also be destroyed.


Yes you can unanchor them provided they are not under attack. They will immediately enter a vulnerable state and at the end will eject the personal assets to safety, kickout the docked pilots into space and the unanchor to be scooped.

And, I assume, the rigs are destroyed?

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Shodan Of Citadel
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#93 - 2015-08-13 19:26:13 UTC
Create "Research Archive" that players can purchase as a way to secure their BPO's in destructible station from being destroyed when the structure explodes. 10% of BPO value allows alliance, corp, individual to have their BPO rights reinstated at a station of their choosing -high/low indestructible. Could also be a way for alliance to build anywhere instead of using copies.

Maybe using a data or relic analyzer on pieces of the station wreck could have a chance of getting some bpc's from the now dead "research archive".

Yes, lots of wreck pieces... talking thousands -that MTU's can't suck in. Pretty stupid to see a titan wreck get pulled near to an MTU -even for a few seconds.

All other assets -drop as loot, this is eve.
Zedah Zoid
Good Eats
#94 - 2015-08-13 19:27:13 UTC
naed21 wrote:
If I'm reading this correctly, assets are never moved out of a WH when the structure is destroyed. This means you can seed ships in whs and then when you anchor a new structure suddenly have a ton of capital ships out of no where.

It's certainly possible for a group to setup a large structure in every c6 wh, fill them with dreads and carriers, and then blow them up so that in the future they can attack the new residents with this large capital force.


Exactly. This is why the WH mechanics of this need to be re-thought completely. I don't particularly like the K-space mechanics either but I have less experience there so I hesitate to start complaining about it. I'm not really sure why any asset outside of high-sec should be considered safe. But for WH space in particular this is an obvious flaw. We've lived this long with "if you bring it to the WH, it's dead already" mindset. Don't take that away.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#95 - 2015-08-13 19:29:13 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Opner Dresden wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.



Does that mean they can be unanchored and moved while not reinforced? The ROI on these looks horrible if it's a one time deployable that can also be destroyed.


Yes you can unanchor them provided they are not under attack. They will immediately enter a vulnerable state and at the end will eject the personal assets to safety, kickout the docked pilots into space and the unanchor to be scooped.

But if I have scouted out the vulnerability windows, I will be able to time my wardec to at least catch one vulnerability window? Or will the target be able to change the window and scoop the structure all within the 24h wind-up period to a war?
Epigene
Cordata Enterprises
#96 - 2015-08-13 19:34:49 UTC
Cynica Deetric wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped


Could you please think about those of us in WH space. I would still have to log off outside of the citadel in my scan boat.

On a side note please do not limit asset recovery to only being delivered to a citadel that is built in the same hole. Thera, low sec, and Highsec are all options

to quote a previous post "Once again, w-space seems to be a bit of an afterthought."



As far as I understand, us wormholers would experience virtually no change from the POS system. The probability of someone building a new structure in the hole they just lost is pretty slim (but not impossible and certainly a driver for long grudges). But a C2 corporation that gets evicted from their hole is likely to just write off the assets and move on. Pretty much what we do today.

I don't mind, actually, Wormholes are supposed to be the least safe place in EVE. This works for me.
Starcruiser Stasarik
Doomheim
#97 - 2015-08-13 19:36:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Starcruiser Stasarik
Question about the Citadels, related to their different structure attachments.

If a person has BP's in one structure (say, the corp office structure), will those BP's be available for use in other structures (research, factory, etc)? Or will we need to move them around as we do different things with them?

If we have to move them around, will that functionality be available while docked in the Citadel, or will we need to be undocked. If Undocked, are we able to do so while linked with the invuln link, or will we have to break that link?

The same would go for minerals and materials, I suppose, for manufacturing. Is having them in a centralized location possible, or will we need to move them about the Citadel's structures as we need them in different locations?

Can things be delivered from one structure to another (say, for instance, BPC's being made can be delivered to the factory structure, instead of having to move them manually)?

This all may be better-asked on a thread relating to the individual structures themselves, but I don't really see anything like that currently.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#98 - 2015-08-13 19:49:15 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Opner Dresden wrote:
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
So not only do the contents of a citadel get magically teleported to a station, but at any point during the whole attack process the owner can just unanchor the thing, pick it up and leave?.


No they cannot unanchor it while reinforced, they would have to successfully defend it first. However they can remove their personal assets if they wish.



Does that mean they can be unanchored and moved while not reinforced? The ROI on these looks horrible if it's a one time deployable that can also be destroyed.


Yes you can unanchor them provided they are not under attack. They will immediately enter a vulnerable state and at the end will eject the personal assets to safety, kickout the docked pilots into space and the unanchor to be scooped.

But if I have scouted out the vulnerability windows, I will be able to time my wardec to at least catch one vulnerability window? Or will the target be able to change the window and scoop the structure all within the 24h wind-up period to a war?

I think they can scoop while the structure in in normal operation at any time. So they can always scoop before the war starts. But if its rigged, they lose the rigs.

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Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#99 - 2015-08-13 19:54:16 UTC
Serious Question: What's 10% of a T2 Original Blueprint?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#100 - 2015-08-13 20:12:53 UTC
Houm...

Lorewise: since the end of the usability of Large POS control towers, Pend Insurance starts buying them, fits them with titan engines and CONCORD grade tank and calls the resulting patch-ship the "Vulture", a NPC ultra-freighter class with 1 billion m3 of capacity. They can't be bumped (seriously... they're 40 kilometers large), cruise at a ponderous speed of 15 m/s and warp at 0.1 AU/S after aligning for up to 1,800 seconds. They become a usual sight whenever a Citadel is facing Doom, and veterans speculate about the contents of the Citadel by counting how many Vultures gather to pick up the loot. Of course, salvage is not for free: a 10% salvage fee is due in order to recover your stuff.


As for the "capsuleer in citadel when it gets blown", it makes no sense that the capsuleer is podded. It is just a invitation to log off safely before loggin out, specially if you plan to leave the game for a while because of RL or whatever. What is the purpose of a dockable structure that punishes you for docking with it? Question

The only sensible answer would be our friends the Pend Vultures taking pods with them. For a modest fee, of course, paid in advance (say, 100,000 ISK?). The "save my ass" fee would be per individual and Citadel, so it wouldn't escalate by losing clones but would cost more the right to be rescued from a lot of Citadels than just from one.


Disclaimer: the idea of using POS control towers as ships stems from reading about a notorous Buckingham bug where a NPC would spawn NPC stations 100 km large instead of missiles due to a change in item IDs... Cool

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you