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Whot ?!

So what happened to the whole idea "loss in eve is meaningful"? Are we steering towards hello kitty online with absolute safety? Getting your stuff back after losing a citadel sounds very much like fantasy RPG where you just need to run back to your corpse or headstone to pick it up again - magic happens, nothing lost, just respawn and keep bearing.

The only safe place ever should be a hisec NPC station.

yes, yes.!!!

And the only safe time should be server downtime. All other time your ship should stay in a space when you logoff.



See what I did ?

It does seem a bit odd that these starbase replacements will be safer than the starbases they are replacing. Maybe the evacuation mechanic should be restricted to the XL structures.

This^

Folks talking about making Citadels into destructible loot pinatas should really think about the unintended consequences of what they are saying.

What are the likely defense mechanisms that will emerge to prevent the kinds of catastrophic losses you are talking about?

Moving everything to indestructible NPC and HS stations is always a choice.

How will your local markets compensate for risk?.

Just the 10% tax that they are talking about for asset relocation is pretty steep.

The concept of null citadels is to unhook people from Jita and not to penalize people for trying to do local industry by them losing everything and then some. 10% on 10 billion worth of industrial assets for one persons a billion. Unless the haul is more expensive than the loss, there is no point in doing industry in the area (it's cheaper to haul it).

So either jump fuel goes WAY up, or the percentage goes down. I'd trickle it down.

Nullsec, 5% recovery tax. Lowsec, 10% recovery tax, highsec, 15%, wormholes.. Lose it all.

You want local industry, reverse the penalties and increase import and export costs. You make it not worth going to Jita to drop/buy your stuff and jump freighter it, you make lazy people quit industry, prices rise, local industrialists thrive by actually producing and selling locally.

I'm not making sov my only consideration. I'm not sure what you're saying.

I didn't mean you specifically, I meant for balancing in general.

Citadels are meant to replace both starbases and outposts, right? But with the asset-safety outlined here, smaller citadels don't behave like starbases, they behave like mini-outposts that can be set up anywhere. I can see that smaller groups in sov null might need something like this in order to viably live in their own space. For everyone else though, this is a fairly significant change in starbase looting mechanics that was not brought on by anything in particular.

That sounds tedious as hell, expensive and makes anyone sane sit in NPC station like rest of the elite pvp crowd and whine about no easy targets in 0.0 ready to fill loot piñatas for us. 10% is already incredibly steep compared to today and not to mention compared to the absolute safety of NPC stations. The citadel would have to be damn good in order for it to be worth even the 10% fee that is proposed by CCP and even more if we turn it into loot piñatas like you and rest of the elite pvp crowd want. I know that bunch of people feel very entitled to have easy targets that drop tons of loot but that is something that miniluv and code got covered already and introducing such a system in 0.0 would effectively kill it as only we would use them thanks to being more or less only group that feels safe enough provided we don't just go **** this tedious **** and move in with moa and then whine like little girls about lack of loot piñatas in 0.0 like the rest.

If you want to suggest changes then you have to think about same things that you want to do to others happening to you too (start with imagining that you don't have the rest of Imperium to back you up). Also you have to think of people who have RL issues, it's hardly a good game design that due to vacation you miss your insurance (LOL like NPC stations have it) and lose everything by the time you get back...

5 cent:

In goals section CCP say that people wouldn’t use these new structures, if the assets inside isn’t safe.
I think people have been using POSes for ages for storing some of the most expensive items in the game (Motherships, Capitals, entire corporations). Nullsec corporations have been living out of POSes in NPC regions well knowing that their stuff could get exploded at any time.
Risk vs. reward. Null sec is currently a better place to make isk than W-space is for larger groups. The people who earn the big bucks in W-space is the residents of the farming holes, typically a few very old players who run sites with as small a crew as possible, with a minimal setup. However the big coorporations aren’t actualy making that much isk as a group from W-space sites. Why does nullsec need so little risk for so big rewards, when W-space have been fine having huge risks for very little reward? - Hiding this behind Risk vs reward is stupid. Call it as it is, risk averse players who prop. shouldn’t even be living in Null sec to begin with.

CCP suggests a system for asset recovering from the citadel when blown up.
In C5 w-space we are lacking content, and recent changes hasn’t exactly made it better. One of the content drivers that have caused most of the larger fights in C5 space over the last year, have been evictions. Some people evict because of a your mom joke, other because of the isk that can be earned. Who would spend a month moving capitals, rolling wormholes, seeding and preparing, if the end result is a few billion isk in Citadel modules(which you then have to sell on a prob. slow moving market). I expect evictions, and in extend the big fleet content, to take a big hit from this increased asset security.

CCP also suggests the asset recovery system for when people can’t access the citadel anymore.
Without the option to pull assets to K-space from W-space, this makes very little sense. The player now have to join a new corporation buy and set up a new citadel, just to retrieve those assets. This will only lead to more boring structure grinding, if the player can even manage to find someone who will spend the isk and trouble trying to place the citadel in the first place.

I suggest:
Remove all asset recovery from W-space(and K-space) and let the stuff inside the citadels drop on destruction. If you want the benefits tied to living in a Citadel, you should also embrace the risk of living in a Citadel. Claiming that Null sec players currently don’t loose their stuff is a bad excuse, cause history have shown null sec alliances blockade other corps stations, preventing extraction. Gameplay that will in the future be lost due to this asset protection. Having the assets drop would give people a reason to evict each other, which is important in W-space, but might just give Null Sec what they crave so much, a reason to move against each other without the need for taking the sov.

CCP suggests podding every player inside the citadel when it explodes.
I am confused as to what the goal for adding this is? To make everyone log of in a safespot instead of using the stations? - In W-space, logging of in space in your ship, would be indefinitely more secure, than logging of inside the Citadel you bought to be your “safe haven”.


Other stuff unrelated to the devblog:

CCP suggests that all citadels have personal storage space.
As a w-space group, build on trust, with the security that people can’t steal more than they can take with them through the wormhole, personal storage gives us the opposite effect than it does in Nullsec. Personal storage space does not give more security(you can still lose your stuff, by losing access to the citadel), it does however remove corporate security. We will no longer be able to give our members access to ships and modules they need because we can’t be sure they won’t just drag it to their personal hangar. With POSes, we could see them go through the wormhole and them stop them by being active, but with personal storage, there is no fighting it.

Our only option is to limit members access and making it harder and more expensive to participate in our activities. This will hit the poor people hardest, that being all the new people who wants to try out W-space. The same people who is hit hardest by losing all their assets when we remove their access to the citadel. Would you keep playing EVE if you lost everything you had just managed to grind enough HS missions to get because you wanted to try out wormholes?

Without personal storage, you wouldn’t have to. We would supply you with the ships and if you left, we could bring your stuff back to you. But with personal hangars, CCP says no! Thou must not play EVE endgame unless thou have moneys to buy more plex to recover!