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Dev blog: I feel safe in Citadel city

First post
Author
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2015-08-14 01:19:01 UTC
100% on board with all clones in the station die. Please do that. Implants are an extremely high end level of play which most nullsec and WH people don't use anyways. Those who do can afford a new set (I say this as one of those who can afford to buy and lose a full set of slaves)

Low-sec dwellers, where implants are rampant, will not be using outposts. Forcing coalitions to leave their high end clones in NPC stations is fine. Choice is a good thing to have!

+1 CCP. It's a bit fluff-breaky but I like these changes. 10% tax on the value of your goods is more than enough of a slap



Ruiko Chent-Shi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-08-14 01:21:49 UTC
Maybe this has been covered, but I haven't seen it yet.

What about items in existing outposts that I'm unable to evacuate? What happens to these items when the outposts that they're locked in are phased out?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#143 - 2015-08-14 01:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
How about this.


Your outpost dies, you lose your **** like with a POS.
Your outpost dies, and you are in whatever you logged off in like with a POS.

People still get loot.
People still keep one ship.

And we all get new functionalities without item risk changes.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Careby
#144 - 2015-08-14 01:28:27 UTC
Sabastian Cerabiam wrote:
Losing implants while you are logged off would be wrong in my opinion. I understand the not being safe in nullsec aspect of the game. So losing some of your stuff if the station explodes is understandable.

The best option would be that when you log back on your in your pod in warp back to the wreck of the station. Same as if you safely log off in space.

I have to agree. It makes little sense to be safer if you log off out in space than if you log off docked in a structure. Logged off is logged off (as long as you log off safely without active timers).

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#145 - 2015-08-14 01:47:03 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
How about this.


Your outpost dies, you lose your **** like with a POS.
Your outpost dies, and you are in whatever you logged off in like with a POS.

People still get loot.
People still keep one ship.

And we all get new functionalities without item risk changes.

Except these are also meant to take over from Null outposts long term and prove to be more desirable than NPC Station living.
So now compare the current functions to the asset safety involved in those cases.
And think some more.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#146 - 2015-08-14 02:20:32 UTC
naed21 wrote:
If I'm reading this correctly, assets are never moved out of a WH when the structure is destroyed. This means you can seed ships in whs and then when you anchor a new structure suddenly have a ton of capital ships out of no where.

It's certainly possible for a group to setup a large structure in every c6 wh, fill them with dreads and carriers, and then blow them up so that in the future they can attack the new residents with this large capital force.



There is a limit before they go poof, they won;t be available indefinitely


Also, they are still exploring no asset safety in Wormholes
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#147 - 2015-08-14 02:21:45 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Another good role for interceptors, speed tanked ceptors - Citadel can't track them to kill them, players can't catch them - Ceptors online for the win.


Citadels can fit webs and scrams. As long as they have a minimum 30km range (T1 entosis range + small buffer) trollceptors are going to have a bad day.

Seriously?
Ceptor gets yellow boxed by Citadel, ceptor speeds out of range - Yellow box drops Ceptor returns.
Unless the Citadel has 1000+ scan res it is not going to catch let alone kill a ceptor.
Unless Citadel weapons have perfect tracking, they will not hit a ceptor.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#148 - 2015-08-14 02:28:32 UTC
When all players (even the long list of inactive ones) has bought out all stuff from a citadel. Does the wreckage then dissapear?

Can you trash items from the list with stuff in the hanger that you have to pay 10% for?

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Sabastian Cerabiam
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#149 - 2015-08-14 02:53:02 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Another good role for interceptors, speed tanked ceptors - Citadel can't track them to kill them, players can't catch them - Ceptors online for the win.


Citadels can fit webs and scrams. As long as they have a minimum 30km range (T1 entosis range + small buffer) trollceptors are going to have a bad day.

Seriously?
Ceptor gets yellow boxed by Citadel, ceptor speeds out of range - Yellow box drops Ceptor returns.
Unless the Citadel has 1000+ scan res it is not going to catch let alone kill a ceptor.
Unless Citadel weapons have perfect tracking, they will not hit a ceptor.



would not smart bombs be the answer to that? I don't know sense I never used them personally but seems AOE weapons don't need to lock so cepter wouldn't see it coming
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-08-14 02:54:51 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.


This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped




Would it not be possible to have my clone moved to the nearest available clone bay in the same sort of way that my assets are moved?

The general gist of this dev blog as I read it was to make people - line members like me - feel safe using a citadel. That even in the event that the structure is destroyed I don't loose everything. Well if I get auto-podded when the citadel is destroyed I will never feel safe logging off in a citadel.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#151 - 2015-08-14 03:00:15 UTC
Sabastian Cerabiam wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Another good role for interceptors, speed tanked ceptors - Citadel can't track them to kill them, players can't catch them - Ceptors online for the win.


Citadels can fit webs and scrams. As long as they have a minimum 30km range (T1 entosis range + small buffer) trollceptors are going to have a bad day.

Seriously?
Ceptor gets yellow boxed by Citadel, ceptor speeds out of range - Yellow box drops Ceptor returns.
Unless the Citadel has 1000+ scan res it is not going to catch let alone kill a ceptor.
Unless Citadel weapons have perfect tracking, they will not hit a ceptor.



would not smart bombs be the answer to that? I don't know sense I never used them personally but seems AOE weapons don't need to lock so cepter wouldn't see it coming

According to past info, AOE weapons will only be able to be fit to XL Citadels, which will belong to no-one but the richest and largest groups due to extreme costs.

So yes, AOE weapons would be a counter for interceptors but only for the space rich, who really should have enough players on grid to protect their asset anyway. Smaller groups without trillions of isk (the current target of most ceptor trolls) will have yet another barrier to successfully living in their space.

Citadels will end up pricing many smaller groups of out nulsec.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#152 - 2015-08-14 03:03:38 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

According to past info, AOE weapons will only be able to be fit to XL Citadels, which will belong to no-one but the richest and largest groups due to extreme costs.

So yes, AOE weapons would be a counter for interceptors but only for the space rich, who really should have enough players on grid to protect their asset anyway. Smaller groups without trillions of isk (the current target of most ceptor trolls) will have yet another barrier to successfully living in their space.

Citadels will end up pricing many smaller groups of out nulsec.

Or the fact that it is almost certain to have max lock range? So even a 10km/s ceptor it has 20+ seconds to lock it while it burns back from off grid. It does need some reasonable sensor res also, but not crazy sensor res.
I.E. Pre lock before web range. And yellow box to red box is one second.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#153 - 2015-08-14 03:08:18 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
naed21 wrote:
If I'm reading this correctly, assets are never moved out of a WH when the structure is destroyed. This means you can seed ships in whs and then when you anchor a new structure suddenly have a ton of capital ships out of no where.

It's certainly possible for a group to setup a large structure in every c6 wh, fill them with dreads and carriers, and then blow them up so that in the future they can attack the new residents with this large capital force.



There is a limit before they go poof, they won;t be available indefinitely


Also, they are still exploring no asset safety in Wormholes

If no asset safety in wormholes becomes a thing combined with structures showing as anoms in ship scanner - it breaks living in wormholes.

CCP need to be VERY careful regarding Citadel mechanics in wormhole space.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#154 - 2015-08-14 03:10:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

If no asset safety in wormholes becomes a thing combined with structures showing as anoms in ship scanner - it breaks living in wormholes.

CCP need to be VERY careful regarding Citadel mechanics in wormhole space.

Currently you can warp to a pos without probes since they are all at moons. Why does maintaining no probe warping break things?
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#155 - 2015-08-14 03:31:06 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Another good role for interceptors, speed tanked ceptors - Citadel can't track them to kill them, players can't catch them - Ceptors online for the win.


Citadels can fit webs and scrams. As long as they have a minimum 30km range (T1 entosis range + small buffer) trollceptors are going to have a bad day.

Seriously?
Ceptor gets yellow boxed by Citadel, ceptor speeds out of range - Yellow box drops Ceptor returns.
Unless the Citadel has 1000+ scan res it is not going to catch let alone kill a ceptor.
Unless Citadel weapons have perfect tracking, they will not hit a ceptor.


You're kidding right? Current POS webs are 150km, so 30km would be awfully low, it's a number I pulled out of my ass for the sake of argument. Anyway, yellowbox to redbox is only one server tick, so your trollceptor starts turning, my Citadel scrams and dual webs you, then the guns one-shot you. No more trollceptor.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Stay Feral
#156 - 2015-08-14 03:36:47 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

If no asset safety in wormholes becomes a thing combined with structures showing as anoms in ship scanner - it breaks living in wormholes.

CCP need to be VERY careful regarding Citadel mechanics in wormhole space.

Currently you can warp to a pos without probes since they are all at moons. Why does maintaining no probe warping break things?


As it is you have to warp to every moon or d-scan down the POS. If it's an anom you can warp to it immediately after entering system. It speeds up how fast a hostile can get to your tower.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#157 - 2015-08-14 03:48:54 UTC
Chad Wylder wrote:


On that note, what's the item value going to be based on and when is the 10% cost going to be calculated? Could someone theoretically use market manipulation to either lower the 10% retrieval cost on certain items to almost nothing, or ramp it up super high for other people to have to pay to get their stuff back?


This should only be a real issue with relatively rare items, but it is a good point nonetheless.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#158 - 2015-08-14 03:57:40 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I like the ISK sink for recovering your goods from an NPC station. 10% sounds about right as straight up loss to NPC's.

As a way to reward the successful attacker, you should consider raising the recovery percentage to 20%. Have 10% go to the NPC faction as ISK sink and 10% go to the alliance that destroyed your structure.


...or you could let 10% of the loot drop in containers; it's less than a POS (ship maintenance array for example) would drop; but then again, with 90% asset security chances are they will be more stored inside. Previous outposts dropped 0%, POS dropped 50%. I believe 10 percent sounds reasonable, no?


What is 10% of a Dreadnought? If that is all I have in the station, then under your system it either drops or it does not.

At least with my proposal, you have a way of rewarding the winner for his victory. If you destroy my structure, and I have a Dreadnought inside it, I have to pay 600m ISK to get my 3b ISK Dreadnought back (no small chunk of change). 300m ISK goes into the ether as an ISK sink and the successful attacker gets 300m ISK. Seems like a reasonable reward for breaking things.

Also, in addition to killmails, can we get some kind of impound reports? By this, I mean, can we get a tracker of how much stuff we have caused to be locked into impound status? If it gets recovered, then it comes off our tracker.

For example, I destroy a structure with 200b worth of someone's stuff in it. They choose to recover only 20b worth of that stuff. The other 180b worth of stuff would show on my tracker as "denied" or something along those lines.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

beakerax
Pator Tech School
#159 - 2015-08-14 03:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: beakerax
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
So what I'm getting from this is; never log off docked in a citadel when you have expensive implants, use a cloaky scanning interceptor instead. Got it.

This is a really good point and one we discussed. In general we don't like the idea of design that have annoying workarounds like this.

So if the structure explodes you would rather log back in space in your pod?

EDIT: Far away from the original location so you don't get camped

Personally, I am not ever ever logging off at one of these things if I can be podded while offline.

Never not safe log.

e: I don't really care whether or not implants are destroyed though.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#160 - 2015-08-14 04:03:33 UTC
Two step wrote:
Half of the impound fees should be paid to the player that landed the final blow on the citadel. There should be an incentive to go blow up a very very full citadel, and you should get more than a couple of citadel guns for doing so.


Completely agree that half the impound fee needs to be paid to the successful attacker[s].

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.