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New sovereignty mechanics

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#81 - 2015-07-25 12:24:25 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor. ...
You do not think another large factor is a bottle neck? Where the estabilished alliances shut the small ones out unless they join their coalitions?


This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#82 - 2015-07-25 12:42:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
... This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.
Don't make that honey trap too sweet. They might grow suspicious. Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#83 - 2015-07-25 13:04:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor. ...
You do not think another large factor is a bottle neck? Where the estabilished alliances shut the small ones out unless they join their coalitions?


This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#84 - 2015-07-25 13:22:18 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.


Blobs are too big an unwieldy for this kind of sov game, small gangs are all the rage and upcoming changes are only going to make them better. You might not have much luck with the fortress that is goondor but fountain on the other hand...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2015-07-25 13:28:02 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
... This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.
Don't make that honey trap too sweet. They might grow suspicious. Blink


Who could be suspicious with our fantastic offer of live in pureblind and reap the rewards of fozziesov, living next to the most secure space in all of nullsec. Why, miners from across highsec who say that null is more secure than highsec should jump at our offer of protection and "mad roids" as far as the eye can see and all of your mining help to defend our space. Work Sets You Free.
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#86 - 2015-07-25 13:29:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.


Blobs are too big an unwieldy for this kind of sov game, small gangs are all the rage and upcoming changes are only going to make them better. You might not have much luck with the fortress that is goondor but fountain on the other hand...


they have basically turned sov warefare into faction warefare, and a blob can split into mini-blobs to control the grid of each plex.

turning sov warefare into small gang stuff is the biggest mistake that CCP has made, in my opinion. Sov warfare, and controling space, should be the domain of big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers. If people wanted small gang content, they would go on roams and do faction warfare. its that simple.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#87 - 2015-07-25 13:40:39 UTC
Diana Nayli wrote:
Rowells wrote:
so, you say you tried to adapt, yet you mention you used the same tactics as before...

pick one



May I ask you, what do YOU like about that sov system? DO you enjoy chasing few frigates for whole night?


It's only for four hours a day but yes, I agree, it is dumb. But I don't blame CCP for that. I blame the people who still form blobs of **** to go and try to outblob three frigates :D
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2015-07-25 13:51:10 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
turning sov warefare into small gang stuff is the biggest mistake that CCP has made, in my opinion. Sov warfare, and controling space, should be the domain of big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers. If people wanted small gang content, they would go on roams and do faction warfare. its that simple.

You see, it would appear that...

Kestral Anneto wrote:
big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers.

There's a fundamental disagreement between you and ccps vision of nullsec

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#89 - 2015-07-25 14:24:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
turning sov warefare into small gang stuff is the biggest mistake that CCP has made, in my opinion. Sov warfare, and controling space, should be the domain of big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers. If people wanted small gang content, they would go on roams and do faction warfare. its that simple.

You see, it would appear that...

Kestral Anneto wrote:
big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers.

There's a fundamental disagreement between you and ccps vision of nullsec


thats because, as i have said before, CCP have started to buckle under their own hubris.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#90 - 2015-07-25 14:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
10 vs 100
Even if the 100 split into 10s to go to 10 nodes, they will still beat the 10 attackers, most of the time because they can hold them until other groups arrive or just kill the attacking 10 because they have split into 1s to go wave their wands at each node.

N+1 still wins.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
White Tree
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2015-07-25 14:56:26 UTC
In fairness this new sov system is some no fun allowed garbo lmao.

Former member of CSM6.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2015-07-25 15:42:18 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor. ...
You do not think another large factor is a bottle neck? Where the estabilished alliances shut the small ones out unless they join their coalitions?


This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.



Completely WRONG. It bouls down to the number of people WILLING to undock!! And willing to operate in a semi autonomous way.

Having 4 times as much peopel as your enemy is not 100% victory chance as it used to be. IT is still an advntage, but not an automatic win.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2015-07-25 15:52:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Vic Jefferson wrote:
... which is why no new large entities really manifest often, or at least one factor. ...
You do not think another large factor is a bottle neck? Where the estabilished alliances shut the small ones out unless they join their coalitions?


This is by far the best chance for smaller groups to gab a chunk of space for the past decade. More changes are due to drop too which will help with that.


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.



Completely WRONG. It bouls down to the number of people WILLING to undock!! And willing to operate in a semi autonomous way.

Having 4 times as much peopel as your enemy is not 100% victory chance as it used to be. IT is still an advntage, but not an automatic win.


no it doesn't, because you cannot factor in peope that will just sit in station. the people that are on grid fighting are the people that matter. It doesn't matter how many times you split the grid, if the opposition has more forces, then they stand a much better chance of winning.
If the opposition have 4x the number of craft on grid as you do, then they will be able to maintain a higher number of Magic Sov Wands on the target than you can. After that, its simple attrition, and the side with more man power will win.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#94 - 2015-07-26 03:53:50 UTC
White Tree wrote:
In fairness this new sov system is some no fun allowed garbo lmao.

But you can use sov lasers, those are really fun :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2015-07-26 04:23:17 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.


Blobs are too big an unwieldy for this kind of sov game, small gangs are all the rage and upcoming changes are only going to make them better. You might not have much luck with the fortress that is goondor but fountain on the other hand...


they have basically turned sov warefare into faction warefare, and a blob can split into mini-blobs to control the grid of each plex.

turning sov warefare into small gang stuff is the biggest mistake that CCP has made, in my opinion. Sov warfare, and controling space, should be the domain of big fleets, with capital support, not a bunch of ceptors and cruisers. If people wanted small gang content, they would go on roams and do faction warfare. its that simple.


SOV warfare IS the domain of big fleets with capital support - but only IF both parties truly want the space being contested. Take an Interceptor to YA0 and see what happens. (You won't be able to win SOV.) Take an armor HAC fleet to YA0 and see what happens. (You won't be able to take SOV.) Drop dreads in YA0 - still no SOV. Jump in more Titans than Goons have, with overwhelming dread and carrier support, sub cap support, proper tactics - and you'll be able to take their SOV. (Obviously nobody has such a force, of course.)

The issue that Fozziesov solves is that large alliances can hold and defend systems without ever jumping in a single ship because the massive HP grind that taking SOV requires. No small group is going to risk dreads to get it done. But now small groups can take SOV with a frigate assuming nobody bothers to contest them. THATs the SOV that small groups will be taking - the SOV that large groups can't be arsed to defend because it's not important to them. That's SOV they took because they could, not because they needed it.

If a small group working with frigs takes SOV, then a group willing to deploy caps decide they want to live there - the small group will not stand a chance, as the larger group will also start with small ships for mobility of course but then will always be able to out-escalate the defenders as fights develop.
Hands Tolen
Doomheim
#96 - 2015-07-26 04:44:04 UTC
Seems like there's a lot of :mad: from the bittervets over needing to log in and do something besides a bi-monthly show of force from the supercapbois. The funny thing about the :content: narrative is that large fleet battles don't require sov. or any objective in particular. You didnt get the BR bloodbath because dominion sov was so amazing and fertile, you got it because two monster super-owning entities decided to drain their blue balls on one system to see who was the better beast.

Players expecting Imperium or PL/NC. to commit to anything on that scale ~because fozziesov~ are idiots and so are the players whinging that said commitment would have happened if only we'd still got dominion around. The ball bags of the goon and pl directorate are hard at work making content for their members, but it's for their members, not you random scrublords. If you can't beat them and don't want to join them, it's time for you to sit down and wait for them to bring the content. CCP, try as they might, cannot force the hand of entrenched coalition leaders.

You'll get your gudfites, but unless you put in the same kind of monolithic effort that hundreds of major coalition members put in daily, you won't be getting the gudfites when or where you want them.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#97 - 2015-07-26 17:46:21 UTC
Hmmm, I rather thought the whole point of allowing sov lasers on anything was precisely to allow harassment of a large empire in area's that they eventually would decide was not worth defending.

If it's not a system your people live in (and can thus easily defend from harassment), or at least in close proximity to one, then you have to make that decision as to whether that system is worth the effort. Previously, no effort was involved to keep it (it couldn't be effectively put at risk of losing without a major force), the only effort involved was for the person wanting to take it.

I realize people don't like losing what the have claimed as their own for so long, but if you aren't actively utilizing that space it should easily be put at risk. Eventually you'll make those hard decisions, and start reducing the size of your territory to something you can actually manage (and make use of).

You should also probably recognize that if a big fight hasn't come your way under the present system, it certainly wouldn't have come your way under the old one during the same time period... and your large fleet would still not have been utilized.

Unless, of course, you actually went and seriously attacked someone.

Perhaps once you lose those fringe territories and smaller groups move in you'll have something you feel confident moving that large fleet to engage. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#98 - 2015-07-26 21:21:31 UTC
Diana Nayli wrote:
Empires weren't prepared for that style of playing.


Good, that's the idea.

Diana Nayli wrote:

I would recommend changing some stuff about entosis links, like only capitals can fit them.


CCP said they won't do this. No ship restrictions because it forces players to use certain metas, which they want to avoid, and capitals because it increases the entry barrier significantly.

Diana Nayli wrote:

Now I'm really missing long structure grinding with 1-hour long elevator music loop....


That hasn't changed. Now instead of bringing lots of T1 ammo you have 10 guys bring entosis links.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#99 - 2015-07-26 21:42:48 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Trollsov is the greatest update that really shakes up null...

By the way, we're starting up our program of cooperative coprosperity, check "Sell Orders" subforum for details. Really shaken up null is available...


Nothing con stop a well oiled corporate machine...

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#100 - 2015-07-26 21:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
baltec1 wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:


your kididng, right?
the entire point is to hold the grid while the Magic Sov Wand waves. it basically boils down to attrition and man power, and the larger entities in Nullsec can throw a lot more meat into the grinder than and small high or lowsec entity.


Blobs are too big an unwieldy for this kind of sov game, small gangs are all the rage and upcoming changes are only going to make them better. You might not have much luck with the fortress that is goondor but fountain on the other hand...


10 Arty Cynabals
5 Entosis Interceptors (Fit with T1 entosis links, run if something capable of killing you shows up)
1 Rapier
1 Arazu
~3 Scimi's (Optional)

Congratulations, you can now take space.

Fast response is now more important than overwhelming force. EVE's history closely mirrors that of the real world's, and now we have finally reached the era of insurgencies fighting massive empires.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.