Crime & Punishment

I'm not saying they start crying and quit the game, and you know that full well. But when you first join a game, you're looking to see if you enjoy it. If you are half way though learning a basic mechanic and you get blown to pieces, that's hardly going to make you think "yay, what a game". I'm nto even saying that people then quit over it, but I wouldn't say that blowing up more noobs is a good way to encourage retention. Generally games work by introducing character to basic skills then letting them progress though content gaining more complex mechanics then widening out to the rest of the game. That's what highsec is for, to give people as place to learn without being eaten alive every few minutes.

You're right abot the undesirable parts of newbie ship loss, however as above I'm going to have to disagree with "papertcut nerfs". They've just replaced on set of mechanics with another.

And making hisec "more dangerous" only encourages more neckbeards with inferiority complexes to feel powerful by blapping rookies. Mechanics wouldn't be needed to make people safer if these types of people didn't spend every waking moment figuring out the best way to farm easy targets purely to make the player sad and harvest their tears.

Good god, what a tragic mentality....we see this all the time in low sec. "Dear god, two guys in frigates just showed up in system! T3s ENGAGE!"

Had a guy in local ask me if I was chasing him through belts (I was). He was in a T3D, me in a Fed Navy Comet. Flat out refused to fight me, begged me to jump one system over into null to duel. Yeah right, so I can get blobbed by your 10 man gate camp? It was so sad and pathetic. Sad part is if he was in any way a decent pilot he would have won that fight. I just wanted to fight because it's fun.

Another time, jumped into low sec in a T3. One guy in system, also in a T3. He promptly re-ships into a carrier. I asked him what if I brought out my carrier, would he have jumped his dreadnought in?

This "I crunched the numbers and I have a 0.0003% chance of losing so I won't fight" nerd excel crap is hilarious. Just undock and fight damnit. Show you have some balls.

It is a matter of fact that this type of thing is hugely uncommon because new players frankly aren't worthwhile targets for basically anything because they don't fly anything worth going out of your way to blow up unless you also happen to be a newbie.

This entire argument is a massive and totally absurd appeal to emotion and it's blatantly apparent from your tone. You have in your head the erroneous notion that there are massive quantities of newbies being mercilessly exploded in highsec and that they need to be saved or else they will quit the game. This is not the case, there is literally zero evidence supporting that this is the case and perhaps if you based your idea of what highsec PVP consists of on anything at all other than your disdain for highsec PVPers perhaps you'd know that.

You are wrong, demonstrably so and by advocating for measures that inhibit highsec PVP the only people you help are experienced players in highsec who want to grind isk in perfect safety.

Think about what you are saying. It's uncommon because new players aren't worthwhile targets. Now imagine if concord were removed. Now they are worthwhile targets, because there's no reason not to shoot them. What makes them not worthwhile is the fact that they are mechanically safer. take away that safety and you lower the bar for what constitutes a worthwhile kill.

No it's not, and at no point have I claimed there are massive quantities of newbies being mercilessly exploded. Once again the "grr carebears" crowd has to misrepresent the opposing point of view toe be able to argue it. Simply put, highsec aggression is already far to easy and low risk and should be balanced like any other mechanic. Wardecs will be before too long, I guarantee it. The fact that highsec corps that aren't purely pvp focussed aren't feasible is ridiculous. It's a section of space designed to be safe, get over the fact that it's safe.

By advocating measures that buff highsec PvP, the only people you help are risk averse PvP carebears who refuse to engage unless they have a 99% chance of winning. Grow a pair.

Tsk, Lucas, that is hardly succinct.

Yeah, the people who fly around neg ten so the entire universe can shoot them in highsec are risk averse, right?

Pretty sure everyone here sees through your bullshit, by the way.

All you're doing is crying about the people whose presence brings risk to highsec. Without them, there would be no risk in highsec, which is exactly your goal in the first place.

And since CCP has told us outright that non consensual PvP in highsec drives immense improvements in player retention, that means that you want to kill the game.

Yes, they are. Let's see one fly a freighter. Flying a pod or a disposable ship while negative 10 doesn't make you suddenly some sort of daredevil.

Wrong, I'm responding to a thread which itself is crying about removing awoxing from the game about my position on what highsec should be. Should it be pretty damn safe? Of course, that's what it's for. You just want somewhere to farm easy kills at minimal risk and effort, carebear.

Wrong! CCP has told us that player interaction drives retention. At no point did they say that player interaction has to be based around non-consensual PvP. You'll figure that out when they bring in the wardec changes though, don't you worry.

No, it was simply an example of a ship you simply wouldn't fly as a -10, as are most ships. You're not any less risk averse because you chose to have a character who can't go in highsec. Hell, you call me a carebear all the time and I've got a couple of very low sec status (-9 or so) guys who can't go into any highsec systems without being chased. If anything I'm more risk averse on them than any other character. They fly around in pods and have their ships delivered to stations to gank from.

I don't. That was easy.

Erm... no. The thread itself is a link to a strawman since the claims made in that post themselves are false. The change was put in to remove the barrier of recruiting newbie characters into corps, and that it did as far as I can see. All that's been done here is the low stats from summer and sov changes have been attributed to the awox change as if that's what's caused the drop in population. To see what effect awox changes really had, CCP would need to do analysis from their data, which we're unlikely to ever see. In all honesty though, I don;t care. Teh awox changes were a good change that removed a dumb mechanic. The fact that it made you guy shed rivers of tears is just a bonus.

Please let me know when you decide to stop misinterpreting statistics. And no, they have not outright said that. Try harder.

It's not an appeal to emotion since it's simply my opinion of how the system should be based on the fact that ganking and wardecs in highsec are easy, low risk and highly rewarding. For some reason you seem to think that it's not OK for carebear PvE players to have that, but it's perfectly fine for you.

Wrong. Once again you misrepresent me. Surely you're going to run out of straw? I don't like the current balance of highsec PvP. highsec PvP certainly should exist, and I've stated this numerous times. What it shouldn't be though is easy, low-risk and high reward. I believe the overall balance of safety in highsec as it currently standards is below the level it should be, that highsec PvE corps not being feasible is a bad thing, and that wardecs in particular need a look at.

I get that you disagree, and that's fine, but you don't need to repeatedly attack me and misrepresent everything I'm saying as if I must be somehow deficient to have a different opinion to you. Adults disagree, grow up.

Nothing about the game mechanics has changed that makes either wardecs or ganking easier. Ganking has overall gotten more expensive, most of the ships routinely targeted for ganks have gotten more EHP, you can't warp when you go criminal and concord response times have never been faster. Wars are 2500% more expensive than they used to be, disbanding and reforming a corp with the same name has been declassified as an exploit and aggressors in wars are frankly at the mercy of the defender.

So has highsec PVP always been too easy, if so what is the one more nerf that's needed to put it in the right place. If not and highsec PVP has gotten easier, in spite of the game mechanics being objectively less supportive of it, why is this and how will nerfing it help?

I'm also really not sure what makes you qualified to talk about how hard any given type of highsec PVP is. I personally refrain from giving my two cents on how I think the sovereignty system should work because frankly I have no idea how that gameplay had ought to work because I have almost zero involvement with it except for ultra rare occasions. Why is your opinion on the state of highsec PVP valuable?


Yes, PVP that occurs in highsec is a type of highsec PVP regardless of the particulars of it. A bunch of dudes in frigates doing a corp tournament in highsec is highsec PVP, CODE. Ganking a freighter is highsec PVP, ninja salvaging a mission runner is highsec PVP. If one or more players are involved in some kind of violent action against another player in highsec what is happening is highsec PVP. I'm really not sure where people get these alternate definitions of PVP from.