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Shield flux coils. The best use for them is to still melt them down, and use the minerals to build something useful.

EDIT: SPRs out recharge SFCs WITHOUT 15% taken from your primary tank.

Especially with the ships left to rebalance having either very dedicated communities built around them (BLOPS) or built around building them (T3s) or are niche by design (many of the remaining t2 classes, like EAFs). All of these are very subject to major changes in how the modules they use are balance as they are usually razor edge on one or more resource of the fit (PG, CPU, Cap) to make them work properly. As such, I am not gonna get my jimmies rustled about various ships languishing so long as CCP acknowledges they are being watched, makes changes at a reasonable rate (every other or every third release is enough for me on the things which are getting filed down, rather than a mallet or spackle) etc.

As for these modules, I can't say I'm much impressed with the scale of buffs. they are still all extremely niche at best, and SFCs are probably just a tiny bit better than an empty slot now.

Instead of a shield HP reduction for shield flux coils, why not reduce either armor or hull by the same corresponding amount?

Some stacking "penalty" on the negative aspects of these modules would go a long way. As far as i can tell there is no stacking penalty on any of these modules.

Power diagnositic system. Shield amount and recharge.

Flip the shield recharge stats around on the meta 0 and meta 1 shield rechargers. That gives us a meaningful choice between the two.

Is there a design reason why meta 0 modules sometimes don't have use besides invention?

Regarding Shield Flux Coils and Shield Rechargers, I'll make sure to bring up some of the points and ideas made in this thread the next time we have a module tiericide meeting. There's always potential for changes at this stage.

Thanks, CCP Terminus.

As Alexis nightwish said above, these modules have limited (rechargers) to no practicable use (flux coils).

It is clear CCP has the will and ability to put module types in the game and try things out, c.f. Target Spectrum Breaker, the new missile guidance computers. Likewise, you should be capable and willing to admit that the idea of flux coils is good, but the practical use is next to nil because it is one of the few modules which basically works against itself.

I mean, there's no armour module which increases resistance but reduces hitpoints. Granted it's not a direct comparison, due to shield recharge being what it is, and there's no passive recharge of armour, but regardless there's almost no modules in the game which have self-defeating negatives.

So, if you're willing to at least discuss changing the module's mechanism, if you remove the hitpoint penalty it becomes a better version of the SPR due to having no cap penalty.

if you reduce the hitpoint penalty it would need to be balanced against the SPR and Recharger.

The Flux Coil has to have a clear benefit versus either of these modules and versus other options for tanking.

eg, a recharger competes with the SPR (which is more efficient at % recharge but has an unrelated drawback) and with resist modules, which are more effective for tanking because they increase EHP not just recharge. It also competes with extenders if you have the spare PG. its only real use is in PG constrained battleship fits, because every other ship either needs buffer (eg, frigates) or has the spare CPU to fit resists.

Assume you have 10,000 raw hitpoints and 600s recharge, with 0% across the board resists, and are deciding on an invul field (eg; 30% resist bonus for simplicity's sakes) or a recharger with 15% resist bonus. The passive tank raw is 16 hp/s. With 30% resists the effective hitpoint tank goes to 20.8. 15% recharge bonus goes to 19.6.

Therefore you will choose better resists to give a better EHP tank with a lower raw tank, and not choose shield rechargers. Ergo, to passive tank, you fill your lows with SPR's and deal with the capacitor problems (unneeded with Drakes, Rattlers, etc, and as we know no one ever passive shield tanks any laser boats).

So, comparing the T2 modules;
Recharger II = 15%
Shield Power Relay = 25%
Flux Coil II = 30%

If you remove the shield hitpoint penalty for the flux coil, it invalidates the SPR. If you remove the cap penalty of the SPR, likewise, it becomes even moreso the module of choice.

So the only real option with the flux coil is to either reduce the shield hitpoint penalty so that the nett effect is equal with the SPR so that thereby the tradeoff is, i guess, do you lose capacitor with the SPR or buffer with the flux coil?

But if you consider the effect of midslots, you'd never, ever choose the flux coil anyway because as shown above, you can add resists to make any given pool of hitpoints more effective. In other words, why trade off capacitor for buffer when you can keep the buffer and use midslots to add even MORE buffer and MORE resists?

So, yeah, to my mind the choices with the flux coil are to redesign the mechanism of its operation entirely, or remove it entirely because it is demonstrated that it cannot be modified to become useful and not a redundant variation of the SPR anyway. The whole idea of passive shield tanking is to add buffer, then resists, then recharge, capacitor be damned i'm using capless weapons or drones.

At what point does the stacking penalty on Invuln's make a Recharger more effective?

I'm taking a guess that 2x Inv + 1x Recharger gives you a marginally higher DPS than 3x Inv.

[EDIT] Osmium is the best website. Turns out 3x T2 Hardeners + 1x Recharger is better than 4x T2 Hardeners.

I can't think of any situation where 4x Hardeners is sensible outside of capitals. But that's for the buffer, not for the DPS.

Its great that you keep the module tiericide train going! Im sure you guys can handle both ship and module tiericide work at the same time.

Flux coils are very bad compared to other options, they need some serious tweaks or like someone suggested deleted from the game.
Maybe you can trade off armor hp for recharge? Since they are a low slot mod.
Shield rechargers are also less useful but not as bad as flux coils from my own experience.
Thing is shield rechargers are using a mid slot wich most players w most ships find other modules that are more needed to fit there, I liked the idea someone had of making it a active module like invul field and giving it a higher recharge.

SPR's seem like they are in a good place imo, would perhaps be fun to see a few navy / faction variants for each of the module types so they are in line with other modules in the game.