Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If you can "lock on" to a gravity signal, you can use the positions of those signals to plot another point in space. It's not lore, it's math.

Of course, CCP ignores math too, so perhaps you are correct.

Extending your confidence in your insignificance to your confidence of the collective insignificance of folks posting here may be a tad misplaced.

My scan probes can warp anywhere, not even a bookmark required.

Palming your forums (and their moderation) off onto Reddit is much cheaper. It also is easier to hide responses there, without having to resort to pesky rules.

CSM members are still talking to CCP about this.

Some of us are still, here, listening and taking reasonable concerns and suggestions.

m

Hi CCP Devs,

I'm /u/jokeres from Reddit.

I've put down my hesitations about your proposed changes and laid out what I think are some possible ideas to get you rolling on something to fix the problem statement here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a90hi/ccpls_root_cause_analysis_or_how_to_fix_what_you/

As I said I'd do it, i'm posting the text reformatted to this board here, now that we've had some discussion about it, post split into two parts since it doesn't quite fit in one.

CCP,

I'll start out saying that I respect your vision and have enjoyed your game for quite some time. I've disagreed with many of your decisions (mining anomalies spring to mind) and have come to like some of the changes i thought would ruin some of my enjoyment of the game (warp speed changes). I enjoyed the changes to mining barges, the changes to assault frigates, tiericide was stellar, and I haven't seen a ship design modification that I haven't liked.

Now, that being said: I've understood the rationale behind each of your changes. They made sense. I'm a systems engineer, and from the community opinion, it always seemed like there was a rationale related decision for each of these. Warp speed changes were natural - large capital ships should never have been able to traverse space as quickly as interceptors and while I don't necessarily agree that the correct speed was chosen, the choice was logical. Mining anomalies revealed mining fleets to incoming enemies, rather than only to probers meaning mining fleets could successfully be engaged - the design decision made sense. Tiericide allowed all battleships to be usable, if not preferred in certain situations - fleet variety is awesome.
I don't understand your rationale behind these proposed fleet warp changes. Heck, I'm not even confident you've correctly defined your problem statement.

The stated problem statement is:



Let's quickly analyze this, we've got two ideas here:



Let's examine how this proposed change achieves the objective of participation:

• Forcing a player to perform more actions conceivably increases their participation as they will be performing more actions. Is changing fleet warping to a location scanned down by a prober to individual warping to a location scanned down and spread by bookmarks really increasing participation?


• Why should we allow any types of fleet warping, if the goal is more individual participation? This is a difference which certainly can confuse new players. In the proposed change, you can only fleet warp to players, but you can warp some element of that very same fleet to bookmarks. Remember the simple KISS principle: Keep It Simple Stupid. We want one action to perform the same for all objects, and to interact in a similar manner no matter the case. If I go in a POS shield with an interceptor, it should behave the same was as if I go in a POS shield with a carrier. If I fleet warp to a planet it should behave the same way as a bookmark, especially if as an individual I can warp to a planet in the same was as a bookmark.

Let's examine how this proposed achieves the objective of reducing the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets:

• In order to warp in on fleets, as the prober, I now need to warp to the location before other pilots can warp to me. This encourages alt-probing, as FCs will now be able to warp to another player's probe result rather than their own.


• Interceptors are in no greater a position than they already are, because burning over a great distance at an enemy fleet is suicide. This doesn't help them, and doesn't help tackle achieve their goal, as this encourages low sig fleets that require more probing.

There are definitely other advantages, but let me pull on a common thread. Combat probing is the origin of each of these problems.Why can an FC warp to a location of an enemy? The FC must first find them, via combat probing. Why do fleet members not need to participate in the current meta? Probing to get on top of members is intensive and requires specific modules. Without them, the common line member cannot participate in finding the enemy. They cannot involve themselves in getting placement, and achieving the goal of acquiring tackle.

Hopefully it turns out better than jump fatigue.

Pretty sure the CSM can't tell you how the CSM feels, only that they're still listening and talking to CCP.

Not true. I can always tell you how I feel. Just not what is said by CCP nor can I hint at ccp discussions by saying things like 'I feel that the AOE omnidamage module for POS shields is a tad overkill' Not that that topic has come up (as far as you know)

This was suggested by someone (I am too lazy to go look) that some eve related media outlet occasionally ask CSM members what they think of threadnaught topics. Of course, some of them will not bother answering pubbies. No point is there?

As for me, to get back to the implied question.

No, I do not see it as a terrible idea but one that needs iteration, consideration, and some tweaking. I stand by the basic idea behind it of not abdicating ships powers to another pilot to do things for you. I could haul out slippery slope arguments or make strawmen but I won't bother. We are far enough along this thread that most of them have been done to death already.

m

Not to mention that an aware FC won't be able to warp a fleet off to a perch if he sees bombs. RIP fleet.