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[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

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Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1541 - 2015-06-18 00:23:59 UTC
If large fleets fighting aligned to safes is your main concern, the squad warp limitation would be FINE and wouldn't break every other use of fleet warp. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
Vandarra Deneroth
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1542 - 2015-06-18 01:45:39 UTC
If the underlying problem is about bombing runs then nerf bombing runs.

Make it so bombers have a 10-15 second cloak/warp activation timer after launching their bombs - at least this gives fleets the chance to blap a few of them and make it more viable to bring anti bomber support - fleets without anti-bomber support...well tough.

There is nothing wrong with bombers (damage wise) apart from the fact they can make run after run in relative safety.

Still - i agree with some of the changes that have been suggested by CCP but they are making them a little heavy handed and for the wrong reasons. Removing Fleet Warping to bookmarks "in space" (i.e. not an object) should be removed however how do you go about this without removing warping to Jump bridges etc as they are effectively ... bookmarks.


- Leave fleet warp how it is
- Remove fleet warping to bookmarks
- Allow JB's/Alliance/Ally structures such as JB's to appear in your menu for warp location
- Disable warp/cloak on bombers for 10-15 secs after launch
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1543 - 2015-06-18 01:46:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Interceptor armed with sensor damp does the job easily enough.


No, it doesn't - can't fit a T2 entosis link. With the smaller entosis range, it's a lot easier to sit a gallente recon w/a sebo to scram it and kill it.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1544 - 2015-06-18 01:49:19 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Off topic, what would happen if 2 FYF faced off? Fastest locker win?


Contrary to Baltec's erosion response, direct experience says that yes, the side that hits critical mass of sensor dampening on the enemy fleet's Celestes then proceeds to kill those Celestes, and wins.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1545 - 2015-06-18 01:50:20 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
heh, good luck with that

m


Haven't you already been accused multiple times of being one of our secret CSM plants, Mike?
Omega 3333
Doomheim
#1546 - 2015-06-18 03:29:10 UTC
CCP.... your getting the feedback and its mostly NEGATIVE... dont do this, listen to your community.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1547 - 2015-06-18 04:14:02 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:
heh, good luck with that

m


Haven't you already been accused multiple times of being one of our secret CSM plants, Mike?


Often accused, never convicted.

I still have to listen to the soundcloud to see what larrikin said. For me it is still not about bombers but players having to play.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Mario Putzo
#1548 - 2015-06-18 04:16:31 UTC
How to solve all the complaints.

Make Bookmarks a shareable warp to link in chat. Such as linking a system.

- Scout gets BM, drags from people and places, into fleet chat, everyone then warps to the bookmark from fleet chat.

Accomplishes the same desire of having people fly their own ships, it forces the FC to ensure his pilots are warping in an efficient order so the fleet lands in an effective formation and not staggering in.
joecuster
Anime Masters
#1549 - 2015-06-18 04:16:43 UTC
This is a step in the right direction more patches like this death to the null bear/blob
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1550 - 2015-06-18 04:21:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Oh for goodness sake, he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next. This would utterly kill so much frigate and destroyer game play by making it impossible to get under the guns of a slower tracking weapon system.

I manually pilot cruisers and above. But for small ships the server tick speed means you cannot orbit manually at close range because you are already out of orbit by the time the next tick comes around. And you have to manage cap, reps, tackle and webs, weapons, overheating, target switching for drones etc etc.

Discussed in the wormhole feedback soundcloud: https://m.soundcloud.com/jimsuletu/wormholefleetwarping

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1551 - 2015-06-18 04:41:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Zappity wrote:
he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next


Yeaaaaah, if they want to do that, they damned well better give us 3-dimensional navigation systems, or it's going to be impossible to keep a fleet moving together.

'Everybody aim 4 stars left of the nearest planet... and then up, even with the second cloud band up from the planet's equator.'
'FC, I'm playing on low graphics because there's 1200 people on grid?'
'RIP.'


I mean, hell, at least give us the ability to set xy/z headings off of the 'north' each system map defaults to - and let us put them in through an actual gorram nav interface, not clicking more or less blindly in space. 'Everyone align heading 283 by -30' will still throw things into utter chaos, but at least then we can enjoy mocking one another for not being able to use a keypad.

Edit to add: Ideally, this would work reciprocally - clicking in space would display the heading you've set on the nav display, so the FC can align, then give everyone the heading. (Or, for that matter, scouts and other fleet members could relay that nav data by clicking in space to get a relative heading - 'FC, they're landing on-grid, bearing 125 degrees by 80 degrees.')
joecuster
Anime Masters
#1552 - 2015-06-18 04:42:07 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Oh for goodness sake, he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next. This would utterly kill so much frigate and destroyer game play by making it impossible to get under the guns of a slower tracking weapon system.

I manually pilot cruisers and above. But for small ships the server tick speed means you cannot orbit manually at close range because you are already out of orbit by the time the next tick comes around. And you have to manage cap, reps, tackle and webs, weapons, overheating, target switching for drones etc etc.

Discussed in the wormhole feedback soundcloud: https://m.soundcloud.com/jimsuletu/wormholefleetwarping

lolwut
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1553 - 2015-06-18 05:04:30 UTC
joecuster wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Oh for goodness sake, he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next. This would utterly kill so much frigate and destroyer game play by making it impossible to get under the guns of a slower tracking weapon system.

I manually pilot cruisers and above. But for small ships the server tick speed means you cannot orbit manually at close range because you are already out of orbit by the time the next tick comes around. And you have to manage cap, reps, tackle and webs, weapons, overheating, target switching for drones etc etc.

Discussed in the wormhole feedback soundcloud: https://m.soundcloud.com/jimsuletu/wormholefleetwarping

lolwut

What is lolwut?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#1554 - 2015-06-18 05:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
joecuster wrote:
lolwut


Yup, it's at 23:30 on the soundcloud. He'd love to remove Approach, Keep at Range, and Orbit. Because in any kind of fight of significant size, the logistics clearly don't have enough to do, trying to catch broadcasts that can be coming in at a rate of dozens in a second while still keeping themselves from drifting off away from the fleet or into enemy gun range.

Tell you what, Larrikin: forget the nav interface - give me a crew, so I can have the 10-50 people able to focus on different tasks that my cruiser's already supposed to have at minimum.

Cuz I'm good, but I can't actually do the work of 10 brains at once, let alone 50.

Honestly, when was the last time these guys did anything in subcaps larger than a dozen people in their fleet?
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1555 - 2015-06-18 05:10:10 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Oh for goodness sake, he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next. This would utterly kill so much frigate and destroyer game play by making it impossible to get under the guns of a slower tracking weapon system.

I manually pilot cruisers and above. But for small ships the server tick speed means you cannot orbit manually at close range because you are already out of orbit by the time the next tick comes around. And you have to manage cap, reps, tackle and webs, weapons, overheating, target switching for drones etc etc.

Discussed in the wormhole feedback soundcloud: https://m.soundcloud.com/jimsuletu/wormholefleetwarping


And the the TL;DR for those who don't wanna listen to the whole thing:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a8pss/recording_of_ccp_fleet_warp_meeting_with_wormhole/csac3si

I cringed reading through it all. A lot. RIP Eve?
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1556 - 2015-06-18 05:14:26 UTC
Many FC just leave the game already, in spectre or other null alliances; and you are still want to make the rest of them annoying to play the game, gg CCP
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#1557 - 2015-06-18 06:38:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dun'Gal
Everyone knows why they want to remove those options right? It's because you can now pilot with your keyboard if you so choose - because you know, they invested time into making that work, may as well force us to use it....

Edit: On another note I'm beginning to see the Entosis link capture "game" very tightly knit with this change. Guess it's too easy to warp onto someone that's trying to capture stuff with Entosis Link so long as fleet warp is available.

Also what in the heck is going on in Low Sec that this change was targeted partially at it (as per the Larrikin interview with the W-Space people?) Oh, must be too many link alts getting blown up... Roll
Ihal Urgudz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1558 - 2015-06-18 06:41:02 UTC
Reyko DU93 wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Rowells wrote:
RIP Bomber wings


You'll still be able to use them, but this will slow the speed at which they usually hit their targets. We consider that a very good outcome.


Just as I started flying bombers


And now I have no reason to even start training stealth bombers, torps, cloaks, and missile skills The reason for resubscribing this pilot is in question. Canceling account, and will submit a support ticket for a refund,.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1559 - 2015-06-18 07:01:16 UTC
Ihal Urgudz wrote:
Reyko DU93 wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Rowells wrote:
RIP Bomber wings


You'll still be able to use them, but this will slow the speed at which they usually hit their targets. We consider that a very good outcome.


Just as I started flying bombers


And now I have no reason to even start training stealth bombers, torps, cloaks, and missile skills The reason for resubscribing this pilot is in question. Canceling account, and will submit a support ticket for a refund,.

Bombers will still be useful. You will just have to be better at flying them.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1560 - 2015-06-18 07:21:19 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
This one nails it for me.

Quote:
CCP Larrikin: Let's talk about combat warping, such as joining a fight on POS or Wormhole. You won't land all at the same time, and that is one of our stated design goals. People participating instead of being warped around with perfect precision is exactly what we want. We want to give room for skilled fleets rather than skill FC's to shine.


Someone want to educate me in how I can SLOW DOWN my warp speed by using my "skills" please.

Anyone?

Hello......?


Edit:

The best way to explain it in a one liner came from there too. You're not making things hard, you're making them awkward.

Awkward isn't fun, nor is overcoming it "skill".