These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[AEGIS] Fleet Warp Changes - Please see devblog!

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#701 - 2015-06-12 13:00:31 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.


recons, t3 (c|d), stratios, astero, covertops properly flown.

pick your poison.

Astero can't fit expanded, covops will die immediately to drones, recons and Stratios are slow warp speed cruisers. So T3 bonused for warp speed. Seriously - replace covops with T3 is the suggestion. Not convinced for small gang.

I understand the problem of lack of involvement for large fleet warfare. But this is not a problem for small fleets. Fix the problem with the large fleets and leave the small ones alone.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#702 - 2015-06-12 13:00:36 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Junior FC for Spectre fleet here. NPSI fleets have a lot of newbros participating and they have to rely on the fc to keep them safe in some situations. Lets say im engaging a fleet and something else lands on the grid that i cant fight i have to quickly extract and get my fleet members to relative safety. After this update i will have to tell them to keep bouncing celestials until i land on my safespot and then order them o regroup on me. Newbros will get picked off on the sun. Jayne plz reconsider this you know how hard it is to manage a fleet full of newbros.



So extract them to a celestial?

Using the brain seems to be hard.
fox targaryen
Doomheim
#703 - 2015-06-12 13:01:09 UTC
much like in real life, changes meant to "make people more responsible" don't really work
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#704 - 2015-06-12 13:01:48 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
Zappity wrote:


You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet?

Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.


recons, t3 (c|d), stratios, astero, covertops properly flown.

pick your poison.


Interceptors work too.[/quote]
Expanded launcher?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Ralen Zateki
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#705 - 2015-06-12 13:03:30 UTC
This may be a surprise, but there actually are players who like to fleet up, be led around, and mash F1.

Those that prefer to take initiative are called dictor pilots, scouts, and other special snowflakes like Lachesis, huginns, boosters, heavy tackle...

Wanna make a change that really rewards individuals? Allow Logi to get on Kim's of those they save.

Ever tried to get people to step up and take initiative in larger fleets? It's usually only a handful...
Jeff Kione
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#706 - 2015-06-12 13:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeff Kione
Manfred Sideous wrote:
So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E


As long as it applies equally to k-space, so no fleet warps to gates.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#707 - 2015-06-12 13:04:17 UTC
Zappity wrote:

Expanded launcher?


Does fit.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#708 - 2015-06-12 13:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
baltec1 wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Warp to the site runner, no probes needed.

You do know that you can not warp to someone not in fleet? What are you sudgesting ? Making the target part of the fleet?


So run sites in defensive fleets. If you are trying to catch them then there is no difference at all in terms of people running the second they see probes.

So basicly you hate hunting for targets and want it completely eliminated?
The thrill of the hunt is what makes w-space so much fun, this change just eliminates that and makes it a pve paradise.
Also you seem to hate pvp'ers and want only pve fleets then?
Baiting only works for the first 10 engagements then you will get a name and no more baiting.
Now we can slingshot a sabre with warp rigs(absolutly needed) and still get the targets only 1/10 of the time.
After this change catching target will be impossible.

It fixes nothing in w-space it only decreases content, makes things more safe and tedious.
For w-space this a a step back to before there were corp bookmarks.

It also forces w-space entitys into one corp, why am i being forced into one corp?

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#709 - 2015-06-12 13:05:57 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
Zappity wrote:
Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.


recons, t3 (c|d), stratios, astero, covertops properly flown.

pick your poison.

Astero can't fit expanded, covops will die immediately to drones, recons and Stratios are slow warp speed cruisers. So T3 bonused for warp speed. Seriously - replace covops with T3 is the suggestion. Not convinced for small gang.

I understand the problem of lack of involvement for large fleet warfare. But this is not a problem for small fleets. Fix the problem with the large fleets and leave the small ones alone.


Probing out the site is enough. no need for the combat probes.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#710 - 2015-06-12 13:05:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
afkalt wrote:

Can you tell me what problem it solves?


It helps to remove the fact that these days one player is effectively flying 251 semi afk ships.



Can you find me a way to manually coordinate fleet warp speeds today without a fleet warp?

Didn't think so.


Warping the fleet to a player warps you at the slowest ships speed still.



Which has nothing to do with "semi-afk" today, or tomorrow.

The change does NOTHING mechanically for the players in the main body of the fleet. They're not now forced to "manually" warp because that wouldn't help. They STILL need a fleet warp. You know "that semi-afk" thing that was you said was the problem, hasn't gone anywhere with this change.

You're smart enough to know this, I'm done debating it with the devils advocate.
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#711 - 2015-06-12 13:06:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Warping the fleet to a player warps you at the slowest ships speed still.

Which suddenly makes all those 250 semiafk dudes instantly awake and paying attention?
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#712 - 2015-06-12 13:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: unimatrix0030
baltec1 wrote:
Airi Cho wrote:
Zappity wrote:


You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet?

Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.


recons, t3 (c|d), stratios, astero, covertops properly flown.

pick your poison.


Lets see in w-space :
recons and t3's will die or catch 1 or 2 dudes(max because most will have warped to safety already) instead of an entire fleet
stratios, astero, covert ops will die before reinforcements arrive(if they even catch one before the targets warped to safety).
Interceptors will get there to late.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#713 - 2015-06-12 13:09:47 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:

So basicly you hate hunting for targets and want it completely eliminated?
The thrill of the hunt is what makes w-space so much fun, this change just eliminates that and makes it a pve paradise.
Also you seem to hate pvp'ers and want only pve fleets then?
Baiting only works for the first 10 engagements then you will get a name and no more baiting.
Now we can slingshot a sabre with warp rigs(absolutly needed) and still get the targets only 1/10 of the time.
After this change catching target will be impossible.

It fixes nothing in w-space it only decreases content, makes things more safe and tedious.
For w-space this a a step back to before there were corp bookmarks.


Again, people running the second they see probes has nothing to do with this change.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#714 - 2015-06-12 13:09:53 UTC
unimatrix0030 wrote:
Lets see in w-space :
recons and t3's will die or catch 1 or 2 dudes(max because most will have warped to safety already) instead of an entire fleet
stratios, astero, covert ops will die before reinforcements arrive(if they even catch one before the targets warped to safety).



So play your hand smart and dont blob the **** out of them right away. trickle in some DPS and logis which makes the other group think they can fend you off.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#715 - 2015-06-12 13:10:42 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Warping the fleet to a player warps you at the slowest ships speed still.

Which suddenly makes all those 250 semiafk dudes instantly awake and paying attention?


Clearly you have never been in any large fleet.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#716 - 2015-06-12 13:11:39 UTC
Airi Cho wrote:


Probing out the site is enough. no need for the combat probes.

Lol, as if anyone stick around at the warpin beacon... .

No local in null sec would fix everything!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#717 - 2015-06-12 13:12:15 UTC
afkalt wrote:



Which has nothing to do with "semi-afk" today, or tomorrow.

The change does NOTHING mechanically for the players in the main body of the fleet. They're not now forced to "manually" warp because that wouldn't help. They STILL need a fleet warp. You know "that semi-afk" thing that was you said was the problem, hasn't gone anywhere with this change.

You're smart enough to know this, I'm done debating it with the devils advocate.


I said its a start to ending the FC flying a 250 man fleet alone. More changes are on the way.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#718 - 2015-06-12 13:13:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:

So basicly you hate hunting for targets and want it completely eliminated?
The thrill of the hunt is what makes w-space so much fun, this change just eliminates that and makes it a pve paradise.
Also you seem to hate pvp'ers and want only pve fleets then?
Baiting only works for the first 10 engagements then you will get a name and no more baiting.
Now we can slingshot a sabre with warp rigs(absolutly needed) and still get the targets only 1/10 of the time.
After this change catching target will be impossible.

It fixes nothing in w-space it only decreases content, makes things more safe and tedious.
For w-space this a a step back to before there were corp bookmarks.


Again, people running the second they see probes has nothing to do with this change.

Yes, it does. People often don't warp fast enough and you can catch them on the align out. Please share your expanded launcher tackle interceptor fit, btw. That could be useful.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#719 - 2015-06-12 13:16:03 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Gentle Space Foke,

As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldn’t warp to on their own. This includes –
  • Probe Results
  • Bookmarks
  • Any private deadspace item (missions, etc.)
Commanders will still be able to warp their fleet to other fleet members, and all other ‘public’ objects.
The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers).

Q&As
Q: When is this being implemented?
A: Aegis (July)

Q: What if every member of the fleet has the bookmark?
A: Nope, sorry, no go.

Q: Can I still fleet warp to planets/moons/stations/cynos/anoms?
A: Yes!

Q: CCP, why you do this?
A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.

Q: CCP, will there be more fleet warp changes in the future?
A: Probably, yes.


Dev Note: Its late in Reykjavik so you may not see a Dev response until tomorrow. However we want to give plenty of time for feedback and we will be watching this thread closely.


Q: Have you guys thought about wormhole people?
A: Oh snap...**** wormhole people, right?

Q: Most pos-warps of fleets go over bookmarks (Dread optimals etc...) - have you thought about that?
A: Sure we just want to be a pain in your backs mate :-D

Q: Gatebookmarks are often used in Null-sec to avoid catch bubbles - regardless if they are friendly for defense purpose or enemy catch bubbles. Moving capitals through null sec via gates relies on a good bookmark management and fleet warps - do you want to break the wheel?
A: Yes, we want to break the wheel - Fozzie even dresses like Daenerys sometimes.

so many more...



TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#720 - 2015-06-12 13:17:36 UTC
36 pages of tears... well done. My tear cup runneth over.

The fix is simple: have someone in a covops ships warp first, then FC (or individual members, or wing commanders) warps fleet to them. Fixed.

Such a simple solution. Eve is not dying. Fleet combat is not dead. Almost nothing to see here. Carry on.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY