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Carnyx release - General feedback

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Blue Harrier
#2061 - 2015-06-23 22:05:10 UTC
Jared Tobin wrote:

The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.


Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position.

I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space.

The overview icons don’t worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder).

It’s the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing ‘in space’ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2062 - 2015-06-23 22:39:31 UTC
uhnboy ghost wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.

Drones:

  • We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.

90% scaling:

  • We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.

Player/NPC distinction:

  • We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.

We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.


nice, the thicker stroke on icons sounds like a really big improvment, will logon to sisi and have a look

EDIT: when u do the line thicker try to make it so the line under the triangel in destroyer/bc gets lower so the gap gets bigger = easyer to see that there is a line under the triangel


Not on SISI yet, Thursday or Friday by the time we get the changes onto SISI.

Will make sure we have a nice gap for them.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2063 - 2015-06-23 22:41:12 UTC
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.

Drones:

  • We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.

90% scaling:

  • We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.

Player/NPC distinction:

  • We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.

We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.



What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon?
Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan....


We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
Louanne Barros
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2064 - 2015-06-23 22:43:09 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:

Not on SISI yet, Thursday or Friday by the time we get the changes onto SISI.

Will make sure we have a nice gap for them.


Regarding the color customization options that already exist (choosing backgrounds for players vs. NPCs, changing which color is assigned to which tag, etc)...

Two things would really improve the situation, in my opinion:

1) A wider range of color options in the color-chooser for backgrounds and tags; it feels like half of them are teals and blues.

2) Addition of "NPC Pilot" to the list of colorizable things that can be given backgrounds in the overview settings.

Hopefully the former is semi-plausible.. I assume the latter is a more significant change to the game.
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2065 - 2015-06-23 22:43:23 UTC
Blue Harrier wrote:
Jared Tobin wrote:

The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.


Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position.

I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space.

The overview icons don’t worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder).

It’s the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing ‘in space’ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.



Cannot quote this enough. It is going to take a LONG time before you are able to reinvent this wheel to everyone's satisfaction. Full customization (such that a player may opt into classic mode), or a classic mode outright is the preferred solution so we can actually play in the mean time.

Players are, and will remain angry or unable to play, until we can make informed decisions again; i.e. gameplay.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2066 - 2015-06-23 22:46:41 UTC
Blue Harrier wrote:
Jared Tobin wrote:

The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.


Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position.

I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space.

The overview icons don’t worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder).

It’s the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing ‘in space’ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.


We are aiming for a solid fill, more than the subtle fill we released.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2067 - 2015-06-23 22:58:18 UTC
Copy - Paste

CCP Claymore

So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply

Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
Steijn
Quay Industries
#2068 - 2015-06-23 23:04:52 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.

Drones:

  • We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.

90% scaling:

  • We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.

Player/NPC distinction:

  • We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.

We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.



What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon?
Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan....


We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.


are you saying that in 2 weeks you do the above, then it will be another 6 weeks before the next batch of changes, and then even longer for the next batch etc.?
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#2069 - 2015-06-23 23:09:29 UTC
Panterata wrote:

As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply

Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks


No they dont
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#2070 - 2015-06-23 23:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Panterata wrote:
Copy - Paste

CCP Claymore

So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply

Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks


They already answered to this question days ago.

Simple answer is : NO.

They stick to those icones, and improve them.
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
#2071 - 2015-06-24 00:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Ruckert
Quote:
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks


While they and you have been waiting, many more thousands of people have been playing each day using the new icons.

Maybe some people are just slow to adapt.

"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#2072 - 2015-06-24 02:12:53 UTC
Michael Ruckert wrote:
Quote:
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks


While they and you have been waiting, many more thousands of people have been playing each day using the new icons.

Maybe some people are just slow to adapt.


Yeah, prolly visual improvements and ship skins will save this game.Lol
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#2073 - 2015-06-24 02:17:57 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Blue Harrier wrote:
Jared Tobin wrote:

The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.


Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position.

I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space.

The overview icons don’t worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder).

It’s the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing ‘in space’ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.


We are aiming for a solid fill, more than the subtle fill we released.


When can we expect a switch to go back to the old icons? You can make it part of your customizable icon option and call it something like classic icons....

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#2074 - 2015-06-24 02:22:07 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Panterata wrote:
Copy - Paste

CCP Claymore

So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply

Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks


They already answered to this question days ago.

Simple answer is : NO.

They stick to those icones, and improve them.


Down fanboi, down. CCP says lots of things then they change then or disregard what they previously said.. Such as we still working on cq, and 1000$ jeans are good. So when these icon changes prove not to be enough, the next logical step will be for a classic icon option.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#2075 - 2015-06-24 02:56:27 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.

Sooo, kinda like you did with the last batch of SiSi testing of the current icons...you ignored the massive amount of constructive feedback that was provided and plowed through with your own ideas, thinking most of what your customers were telling you was a lie.

As i'm sure it will come up in that thread...NPC's need a completely different shape.

CCP Claymore wrote:
    NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind

Wait....making changes with colorblind people in mind....and deciding to USE A FLIPPING COLOR as the only differentiation? This sounds like a brilliant idea...again.

New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!

An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
Grezh
Hextrix Enterprise
#2076 - 2015-06-24 03:49:42 UTC
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:

We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind

Wait....making changes with colorblind people in mind....and deciding to USE A FLIPPING COLOR as the only differentiation? This sounds like a brilliant idea...again.[/quote]

Even if you can't distinguish between any colour and everything looks like grey-scale the tint would still give it away. Making icons too complex defeats one of their major goals in being able to see at a glance what is on grid which is why they didn't add t2 or faction tags to the icons as it's needless clutter.
MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
#2077 - 2015-06-24 05:03:45 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.

Drones:

  • We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.

90% scaling:

  • We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.

Player/NPC distinction:

  • We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.

We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.


I do not believe you. You have ignored the majority of feedback already given.
Sykaotic
Doomheim
#2078 - 2015-06-24 05:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sykaotic
The current icons do not look modern, and they definately do not identify ships.

Examples:

1. Simple triangle icon = "modern" ....?

2. Simple triangle icon = is an icon that better matches a frigate over the old icon?

3. The simplistic upside down computer mouse icon is "modern" ?

4. The upside down computer mouse icon is well known in the world to represent.... industrial ships?

Perhaps NASA uses these icons?

As Spock would say.... highly illogical.

After everything I have read, the best "theories"I have seen in hundreds of posts is... this was done to make a "mark" on the game or busy work.

I bet if a poll were done not connected to Eve.... just a poll, with pictures of the icons, asking:

1. Are these icons "modern"... most would say no.

2. Tell me what this triangle icon represents....? The answer would not be any kind of spaceship real or in a game.

GL with this....
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#2079 - 2015-06-24 06:40:18 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Hey folks,

So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.

Drones:

  • We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.

90% scaling:

  • We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.

Player/NPC distinction:

  • We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.


We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.

We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.

There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.



What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon?
Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan....


We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.



is this at least still on the table? Because this issue was pointed out even before this set of icons was deployed, by a lot of people ion the original feedback thread.
Panterata
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2080 - 2015-06-24 07:00:55 UTC
Copy - Paste

CCP Claymore, probably you are colorblind and not see my post because I repost it for 3rd time

So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES as ppl wishes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes as ppl wish? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses

As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply

Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2078 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks