Warfare & Tactics

A lot of people come in, eager to learn. They just don't get the help. Eve is s game you have to read into, and that is its greatest hurdle, in every aspect. From the new player experience to FW. As for Null bears joining FW in droves,I doubt very much, for much the same reason high sec mission runners wouldn't. Some People set their own goals and don't like variables, distractions, or the unexpected. There has to be better tools available, as you said, which explain concepts and expand awareness of changing environments. Not things that encourage you to be lazy. I don't like the idea of notifications when someone runs a timer in another constellation. In fact, of I'm not wrong, i think this information is already present in the FW window map grid. The system you hover your pointer over pulses and says, "Something something are currently being captured." Whatever delay it has, I'm not privy to. My own free time has been greatly reduced, but i still fly here and there. I can't wait for the t3d Small's change. I haven't seen that many AF's lately that weren't in a gang. As for timer rollbacks, I'm sure we'll see them soon too. I'm glad that the Null changes have made it glaringly obvious. One thing i would love to see is system upgradeability, where you can CHOOSE the bonus in system when you donate, with higher grade options only available at level V, like cyno inhibitor or the fuel bonus to towers. Heck, maybe even invasive bonuses that increase cost of fuel or station services to non -militia entities. I know we're not the only ones in lowsec, but some of these could be fun and there are many non-FW lowsec systems out there.

I do think fw missions need to be nerfed relative to plexing - as I posted. But that will not fix faction war.

More lp here and less there will not change the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem with faction war is this:

You will gain more sov for your militia if you get 4 alts rabbit plexing than you will if you go out with a pvp ship and fight for plexes.

As long as such boring gameplay is how you win sov then the sov game will remain broken. It doesn't matter if your add rewards to plexing or take them away. Nor does it matter what tier system you have, cashout, or current. As long as the bolded statement remains true fw sov will be broken.

CCP knows how to fix the above and they even said they would do it. But that was about 3 years ago and they never followed through. At the last csm meeting they never even mentioned either fix.
1) timer rollbacks and
2) better intel tools. In particular real time intel about where plexes are being run so that organized pvpers can respond before the plex is captured.

If we had real time intel about where plexes were being run then the guy with 4 rabbit plexing accounts would quickly find his alts are getting killed or chased out before he can finish a plex. If he is killed or constantly chased out then he would lose his time spent. It would no longer be as cost effective as simply fitting your ship as best you can for pvp and choosing to stay and fight. The bolded statement would no longer be true and faction war would be fixed.

It wouldn't take any lp, isk to do it. It would just be a matter of those 2 changes and fighting for faction war sov would be a fun and challenging game.

This has been the case for years, and for years I see new faces saying we just need this bit of candy or we need to take away this bit of candy. (Yes I say that too because some changes would be better, but I want to make it clear here, such changes won't actually fix the root of the problem.) I hear people ask for more benefits and consequences. But tying benefits and conseqences to a boring mechanic will never fix the ultimate problem and really only makes it worse.

CCP has given fw so much treasure the weight of it crushed all of the lp stores. All of them, including those that aren't even fw lp stores! Yet the sov game is still broken. I know this will fall on deaf ears. More players will say we need to have this or that candy. And CCP will continue to tweak the candy like they have been for years. But at base fw will remain broken.

i dont even know what to say to this ... in my eyes ogbs are quite broken and if you think they are completely ok, then we have nothing to talk about



another thing, those changes for fw mentioned in csm minutes ... anyone know when they will be implemented? not like they are something big but atleast something

Very minor changes to plexes, as in, no stabs and cloaks able to run buttons will fix farming. Your derogatory term 'rabbit' plexers is unwieldy. It seems you just use that to describe behavior you dont like.

if an atron runs away from a daredevil, does that make him a rabbit plexer? If a condor runs away from a crapacal, does that make it a rabit plexer. If someone runs 4 accounts to plex, does that make him a rabbit plexer if his alts sometimes fight if he things they have a chance. If someone has 4 alts who dont fight but his main hangs around to defend them, are they rabbit plexers? My alts have 2 stabs fitted but i still sometimes fight and sometimes win, are they rabbit plexers?

'Rabbit' plexers is a useless term you use in an angsty way to be derogatory to other players choices. The global problem is only stabs and cloaks. Once stabbed and cloaky ships cannot run buttons, then they are much more vulnerable and then it comes down to your ability to catch them, which is half the fun.

OGB are great at the gang fleet level, specially if they are off grid. It gives a potential advantage to the side that is willing to try and disrupt the hostile fleets boosts. This creates a different and very important role for anyone interested in probing (assuming boosts get agro and cant sit on gates, but even then forcing them out of system can be an advantage).

Thats why my idea is better. Cloaks and stabs should be allowed inside a plex. But they simply should not effect the button.

In this scenario you can still catch he farmer using cloaks with no worry that they are going to be stabbed.

Everyone has the idea of running if something comes they dont want to fight. Some peoples envelopes are larger than others. Therefor your term lacks any meaningful definition.

Well, from my perspective. Most people i come across are rabbit plexers, or more accurately, evasion farmers.

Its a matter of perspective. Its interesting to see how many farmers, who would run away from almost anything, will go toe-to-toe with one of my equally young and low SP alt.

You also just fell into the same trap cerain often does. Points out a problem and offers no solution. Simply incanting things like 'introduce a mechanic' or 'ccp should fix it' is no help. You cannot force people to fight. At least you didnt go full cerain, and offer a solution that barely has any connection to the problem he proposes it to fix.

Someone suggested removing d-plex LP. But that will be a boon for the farmers since it will resurrect the pendulum and flip flop occupancy of the past. many systems will just be written off as they were in the past since you know if you lose them today, they will just be back in your possession in 4 days time even if you dont lift a finger to go there.

Basically, farming is already easy to fix. You just have to be as interested in defending the system as they are in farming it. If you are not interested in the system, does it really matter if they are evasion farmers or not? since if you are not there you would not know either way.

Removing stabs from the repertoire of farmers simply gives pvpers the option to catch these guys without having to fit multiple scrams. Ceraind says it wont help because the evasion farmers will just warp away. I say, if they are paying enough attention to see you coming then they are entitled to warp away from something they dont like, just like everyone else.

I am sure everyone who read the thread knows I very clearly stated what I think will solve the problem. If any non-trolls think that is not the case I will try to help them understand.

Lots of people can agree there is a problem, without agreeing to any particular solution. At least they agree with the first step of the logic - that there is a problem.

They might also disagree with your claim that what we mean by "rabbit plexer" or "farmer" is so vague that it is meaningless. There might be some gray area at the fringes of the term but it is clear enough for many people who have tried to pvp in fw space to understand what we mean. You just try to derail every topic you can.

I gotta say, to this guy's credit, that being critical of how the term 'rabbit' is used to imply skittish behavior, while accepting the very skewered definition of 'farmer' as applied to ... repetitious acts for the accumulation of non-physical objects within a virtual environment in exchange for real currency(?), is pretty comical. I don't think even a fraction of the persons you would label as farmer would qualify as what would generally be considered a 'farmer' by MMO standards. Grind would even be more suitable, except that the idiom of Eve terminology is accustomed to a certain set of words.

While home systems are safe from farmers, we do still have to deplex them every morning. Somebody's isk machine causes us to have to spend hours deplexing our home systems without pvp, and for much smaller rewards than the farmers got.

Plexing is supposed to be dangerous, that's why the payouts are so good. The farmers risk almost nothing, just an insured frigate that's stabbed and fitted with cheap modules.

The farmers DO contribute to warzone control. A bunch of stabbed ships plexing everywhere makes it hard for the other side to make a comeback.

They also devalue the "real" players' LP. We'd get more isk for the the items in our LP store if the market weren't flooded by the farmers.