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Do not train to fly battleships

Author
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2015-05-22 06:12:53 UTC
Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.

To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.

In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships.
Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.

The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#142 - 2015-05-22 10:11:35 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.

To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.

In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships.
Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.

The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.


If 2 such fleets collide and the BS pilots aren't completely braindead, then frigs will die by the second due to webs and paints. You can outrun the tracking of one BS, but you can't keep transversal up on a gang of them while dualwebbed and dualpainted.

Just Huginn/Rapier/Loki DDD up for drone bunny assign, free fire on frigs :D No, frigs don't tank through 150 warrior IIs, and smartbombing frigs are rare.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2015-05-22 10:38:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
baltec1 wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
All the navy and pirate BS have theyre strengths and uses (yes even the nestor... a bill isk hull tho lol)

My only issue with BS's are theyre vulnerability to Bombs, and slow allign/warp in general ... Everything else is just meta


Armour BS fleets don't worry about bombs and align/warp times are easily delt with.


Depends on the number of bombs Blink
And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time Roll

Aza Ebanu wrote:
Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.

To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.

In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships.
Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.

The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.


Shocked duuuuuuuuuuude!!! what are you on?

A fleet BS will (at least) have 10 to 15 TIMES the hitpoints of the best tanked frigate... Better Logistic support... And support ships that will allow said battleships to pwn every frigate that comes close.... And thats not refitting at all to deal with smaller ships....

But heres the main reason why battleships dont worry about frigates... MOST can at the very least field a flight of light drones (no bonuses)... multiply that by the number of battleships... assign to say.... a hic? Lach? Hug?and suddenly you have Hundreds of drones buzzing around your head.
Most battleships wont even waste the ammo to shoot you.

No Worries

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2015-05-22 13:12:38 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:


Depends on the number of bombs Blink


It would take over 100 bombs to take out an armour BS fleet.

ChromeStriker wrote:

And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time Roll


I have BS that give assault frigates a run for their money.


Vibiana
Frontier Trading Company
#145 - 2015-05-22 13:58:48 UTC
You mean meta/t2 fit domi?
Sure it is cheap and bang of the buck.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2015-05-22 14:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
baltec1 wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:


Depends on the number of bombs Blink


It would take over 100 bombs to take out an armour BS fleet.

ChromeStriker wrote:

And i mean mainly for moving from system to system (finding fights), JB's and titans arent available all the time Roll


I have BS that give assault frigates a run for their money.




... 48 ish against max tanked abbadons... in 8 wings of 6.... if my maths works...

yes yes we all have a nano battleship... tbh however much fun that is... would rather go that fast and not waste the slots... a guy can dream Roll

No Worries

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#147 - 2015-05-22 14:39:03 UTC
A fleet of frigates vs a fleet of battleships isn't a question, its a ridiculous, unpractical hypothetical. As I've already stated, a BS can be part of a well balanced fleet. A bowl of cereal is not a nutritious breakfast. Its part of a well balanced breakfast. And it would be a stalemate at very best no matter how the BS's were fit, because Drones. What do you think, the cluster of battleships is going to all be within 15k of the center of the mass? so that no frig is within range of any battleship? and no BS has drones? or a web? Give me a break.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#148 - 2015-05-22 17:37:07 UTC
I just want to say,
I've been on a BS roam where we had a mixed fleet (Kitchen Sink) of random BS. 8 to 10 of us, I can't really remember.
We came across a 15 to 18 man frigate fleet with 1 RR Domi.
What I do remember is, the frigates popped so fast, you couldn't call primaries. Just target a random and start shooting.
Saved the Domi for last. With a couple bumps, it was all over before he made it back to the gate.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2015-05-22 18:56:05 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Seeing as how speed plays such a large role in tanking of this game, battleships tank the least from aggregate damage in any fight. Frigates, because of a smaller sig rad and possibly faster speed tank the most in aggregate damage.

To answer the fleet of battleships v. the fleet of frigates question. A fleet of battleships would have to fit specifically to shoot smaller ships to survive (obviously) However when fleet compositions change with a mix of smaller and larger (non battleships), the battleship fleet's chances of winning drop exponentially.

In other words if a battlship fits to fight frigates, it will die to larger ships.
Obvious exceptions include: drone boats, ships with tracking and neut bonuses. The battleships without such bonuses become huge liabilities.

The disadvantage is not the fit, but how sig/speed effect damage. For the skill points smaller ships can tanke easier than larger ships because they should take less damage.


If 2 such fleets collide and the BS pilots aren't completely braindead, then frigs will die by the second due to webs and paints. You can outrun the tracking of one BS, but you can't keep transversal up on a gang of them while dualwebbed and dualpainted.

Just Huginn/Rapier/Loki DDD up for drone bunny assign, free fire on frigs :D No, frigs don't tank through 150 warrior IIs, and smartbombing frigs are rare.


1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.
2. It wont live long enough to web anything. Battleships cannot tank aggregate damage effectively.
3. Rinse repeat
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2015-05-22 19:00:02 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
A fleet of frigates vs a fleet of battleships isn't a question, its a ridiculous, unpractical hypothetical. As I've already stated, a BS can be part of a well balanced fleet. A bowl of cereal is not a nutritious breakfast. Its part of a well balanced breakfast. And it would be a stalemate at very best no matter how the BS's were fit, because Drones. What do you think, the cluster of battleships is going to all be within 15k of the center of the mass? so that no frig is within range of any battleship? and no BS has drones? or a web? Give me a break.


It happens all the time. at gatecamps null, high sec wars and hell even the alliance tournament.
I see the problem here. You all fly Gallente battleships that fit neuts, web, and high damaging drones. I understand. As I said earlier, "the Domi is a really good ship".
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#151 - 2015-05-22 19:41:21 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:


1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.


Falcon ruins the day of just about any ship although battleships fair better than smaller ships. Thankfully falcons are a rare sight these days.
Gh0stBust3rs
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#152 - 2015-05-22 20:10:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.


Falcon ruins the day of just about any ship although battleships fair better than smaller ships. Thankfully falcons are a rare sight these days.


its because between the compensation skills and the nerfing the falcon took its just not worth bringing a falcon alt. Which is why everyone has a booster alt instead.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-05-22 21:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.


Falcon ruins the day of just about any ship although battleships fair better than smaller ships. Thankfully falcons are a rare sight these days.


its because between the compensation skills and the nerfing the falcon took its just not worth bringing a falcon alt. Which is why everyone has a booster alt instead.

It doesn't matter. Any e war cruiser will ruin the whole fleet's day. Could a battleship sensor jam a frig? sure, but how specialized would you have to be to pull that off?

Second death to battleship tactic:
Fit a smartbomb on your cruiser

CCP quote:
"Their medium size offers more room for various functional outfitting, and extra punch capable of ripping though unprepared battleships. Their weapons are also light enough to decently track and destroy frigates."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2015-05-22 22:06:56 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:


1. Falcon jam the webbing BS, sensor damp the BS.


Falcon ruins the day of just about any ship although battleships fair better than smaller ships. Thankfully falcons are a rare sight these days.


its because between the compensation skills and the nerfing the falcon took its just not worth bringing a falcon alt. Which is why everyone has a booster alt instead.

It doesn't matter. Any e war cruiser will ruin the whole fleet's day. Could a battleship sensor jam a frig? sure, but how specialized would you have to be to pull that off?

Second death to battleship tactic:
Fit a smartbomb on your cruiser

CCP quote:
"Their medium size offers more room for various functional outfitting, and extra punch capable of ripping though unprepared battleships. Their weapons are also light enough to decently track and destroy frigates."


What exactly is a cruiser gang fitted with smartbombs going to do to a fleet of blaster megathrons other than melt?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2015-05-22 22:11:32 UTC


ChromeStriker wrote:
Shocked duuuuuuuuuuude!!! what are you on?

A fleet BS will (at least) have 10 to 15 TIMES the hitpoints of the best tanked frigate... Better Logistic support... And support ships that will allow said battleships to pwn every frigate that comes close.... And thats not refitting at all to deal with smaller ships....

But heres the main reason why battleships dont worry about frigates... MOST can at the very least field a flight of light drones (no bonuses)... multiply that by the number of battleships... assign to say.... a hic? Lach? Hug?and suddenly you have Hundreds of drones buzzing around your head.
Most battleships wont even waste the ammo to shoot you.


The best tanked frigate will only take < 1/2 of the battleship's damage. Your know nothing about fitting smaller ships. A cruiser could wipe out a battleships drones in seconds. BCs can tank almost as well and gank as well as battleships. In addition to their smaller sig, they can mitigate the aggregate damage of the battleship fleet. Yes a battleship better tank at least that well because, it can not mitigate any damage with it's sig. No matter what hits it, it will likely hit for full damage.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2015-05-22 22:27:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
]

What exactly is a cruiser gang fitted with smartbombs going to do to a fleet of blaster megathrons other than melt?


It doesn't matter. People always hid behind the Megathron/Domi. Those battleships make the mpst sense, but the majority of BS is this game don't. Megathrons have perfect gank, perfect tank, and a good slot configuration. This is rare among the battleship line up.

However, they rarely get a lock on smaller ships. And a falcon will make it a chancy, but one sided fight here. And if anyone ever used a sensor damp on it...Shocked The Mega would have to sacrifice speed or web and therefore will never catch it's prey. Its a cool but very needy ship.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#157 - 2015-05-22 22:28:14 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:



The best tanked frigate will only take < 1/2 of the battleship's damage.
Half the damage from a battleships weapons is still enough to alpha a lot of frigates
Aza Ebanu wrote:


A cruiser could wipe out a battleships drones in seconds.
And said cruiser will be getting slammed by the battleships main weapons.


Aza Ebanu wrote:


BCs can tank almost as well and gank as well as battleships.


Gonna need to see this BC and fit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2015-05-22 22:31:08 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
]

What exactly is a cruiser gang fitted with smartbombs going to do to a fleet of blaster megathrons other than melt?


It doesn't matter. People always hid behind the Megathron/Domi. Those battleships make the mpst sense, but the majority of BS is this game don't. Megathrons have perfect gank, perfect tank, and a good slot configuration. This is rare among the battleship line up.

However, they rarely get a lock on smaller ships. And a falcon will make it a chancy, but one sided fight here. And if anyone ever used a sensor damp on it...Shocked The Mega would have to sacrifice speed or web and therefore will never catch it's prey. Its a cool but very needy ship.


And what is your falcon going to do when faced with a golem?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#159 - 2015-05-23 00:21:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
]

What exactly is a cruiser gang fitted with smartbombs going to do to a fleet of blaster megathrons other than melt?


It doesn't matter. People always hid behind the Megathron/Domi. Those battleships make the mpst sense, but the majority of BS is this game don't. Megathrons have perfect gank, perfect tank, and a good slot configuration. This is rare among the battleship line up.

However, they rarely get a lock on smaller ships. And a falcon will make it a chancy, but one sided fight here. And if anyone ever used a sensor damp on it...Shocked The Mega would have to sacrifice speed or web and therefore will never catch it's prey. Its a cool but very needy ship.


And what is your falcon going to do when faced with a golem?

Wont waste all of the day comparing ships with you. How many SP will said golem pilot need? End of discussion with you. You really should read the original post.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#160 - 2015-05-23 00:43:29 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Wont waste all of the day comparing ships with you. How many SP will said golem pilot need? End of discussion with you. You really should read the original post.


Translation:

You cannot argue your side because you have zero experience to fall back on when faced with someone with vastly more experience flying the hulls in question. Battleships are fine and in the best shape they have ever been in with a huge number of differing options.