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Do not train to fly battleships
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#381 - 2015-06-15 18:55:31 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Is a constant excuse for poor game design. the inverse works in this case too. What if the players in cruisers aren't that good? What if the players in cruisers are elite and they still kill battleships? The problem with this thinking is that it makes assumptions. It is clear for players who understand EVE game mechanics that battleships are liabilities, that's why most players fly some sort of medium hull. Battleships are not the kings of tanking , and they are not the best damage dealers in the game. In order to deal full damage, they have to have support, or be going up against a pilot who is careless. Battleships are designed to fail.


The difference here is that I had the openness and ability to understand why I was wrong back then. That you don't demonstrates some of the things a few dozen people have said about you in this thread you made. You can get mad at me for saying that, and if that makes you feel better good, but you are deluding yourself.

Battleships are not solopwnmobiles for a reason. You can solo with them, but only if you are actually good at the game There are very good reasons why different ship classes are good for different things cruisers are useful, but so at Battleships in the right circumstances... You seem to want some kind of "I Win" button and that's wrong.

A question that I have that you haven't mentioned yet is why you worry about what other people are doing? If everyone thought like you, those people in those videos many of us have linked (that you dismissed) wouldn't be doing incredible things in battleships. Hell, if Baltec though like you there'd have been no "Baltec Fleet" which was a thing of beauty to behold.

I think you just trying to compensate for you personal inability here.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#382 - 2015-06-15 19:51:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Is a constant excuse for poor game design. the inverse works in this case too. What if the players in cruisers aren't that good? What if the players in cruisers are elite and they still kill battleships? The problem with this thinking is that it makes assumptions. It is clear for players who understand EVE game mechanics that battleships are liabilities, that's why most players fly some sort of medium hull. Battleships are not the kings of tanking , and they are not the best damage dealers in the game. In order to deal full damage, they have to have support, or be going up against a pilot who is careless. Battleships are designed to fail.


The difference here is that I had the openness and ability to understand why I was wrong back then. That you don't demonstrates some of the things a few dozen people have said about you in this thread you made. You can get mad at me for saying that, and if that makes you feel better good, but you are deluding yourself.

Battleships are not solopwnmobiles for a reason. You can solo with them, but only if you are actually good at the game There are very good reasons why different ship classes are good for different things cruisers are useful, but so at Battleships in the right circumstances... You seem to want some kind of "I Win" button and that's wrong.

A question that I have that you haven't mentioned yet is why you worry about what other people are doing? If everyone thought like you, those people in those videos many of us have linked (that you dismissed) wouldn't be doing incredible things in battleships. Hell, if Baltec though like you there'd have been no "Baltec Fleet" which was a thing of beauty to behold.

I think you just trying to compensate for you personal inability here.

As usual, not a single objective point in you entire post.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#383 - 2015-06-15 22:21:01 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Is a constant excuse for poor game design. the inverse works in this case too. What if the players in cruisers aren't that good? What if the players in cruisers are elite and they still kill battleships? The problem with this thinking is that it makes assumptions. It is clear for players who understand EVE game mechanics that battleships are liabilities, that's why most players fly some sort of medium hull. Battleships are not the kings of tanking , and they are not the best damage dealers in the game. In order to deal full damage, they have to have support, or be going up against a pilot who is careless. Battleships are designed to fail.


The difference here is that I had the openness and ability to understand why I was wrong back then. That you don't demonstrates some of the things a few dozen people have said about you in this thread you made. You can get mad at me for saying that, and if that makes you feel better good, but you are deluding yourself.

Battleships are not solopwnmobiles for a reason. You can solo with them, but only if you are actually good at the game There are very good reasons why different ship classes are good for different things cruisers are useful, but so at Battleships in the right circumstances... You seem to want some kind of "I Win" button and that's wrong.

A question that I have that you haven't mentioned yet is why you worry about what other people are doing? If everyone thought like you, those people in those videos many of us have linked (that you dismissed) wouldn't be doing incredible things in battleships. Hell, if Baltec though like you there'd have been no "Baltec Fleet" which was a thing of beauty to behold.

I think you just trying to compensate for you personal inability here.

As usual, not a single objective point in you entire post.


Those are some mighty powerful ego defense mechanisms you have there, but the problem with that is they don't serve you in the long run. Learning the flaws in your thinking (like I did then, and as I continue to do) stings at 1st but it makes you stronger, but doing what you are doing hurts down the road.

Either way, it's your life, but damn man. Just damn.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#384 - 2015-06-16 00:09:41 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
I've decided to flip my point of view. I am convinced and I now see the truth.
I'd like to have my battleships get a serious buff.

Warp speed-200% increase
Base speed- 300% increase
Weapons tracking- 300% increase
More slots
More HP
More drones
More range for every module mounted

I can't believe I didn't get on board sooner...


Yep lol, also give them a Doomsday Device in the high slot which is needed to help SOME pilots get rid of that pesky Atron that's eaten it's way into a certain BS pilot's hull.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#385 - 2015-06-16 00:20:43 UTC
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#386 - 2015-06-16 01:33:01 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.


Their are tons of reasons in this thread that fully explains the reason to train for BSs and how to FIT & fly them, assuming the person reading them doesn't have a comprehension deficiency.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#387 - 2015-06-16 01:39:22 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.


No offense, but the reasons to fly them have come up many, many times in this thread. Primarily it comes down to two things.

First, a highly capable solo battleship can take on swarms of smaller ships. It isn't easy and it isn't for everyone. But it has been done, can be done, and is a direct result of game design.

Second, battleships in groups are more effective with smaller numbers than cruisers in groups. That was the point of the discussion circa page 8. Battleships simply scale more effectively because they can push out more damage per ship and can catch reps more effectively than cruisers.

It's actually not that hard to apply damage from a battleship, but you have to do it deliberately. It's easier to fly cruisers as a general rule, but that doesn't mean battleships don't have a unique role to play.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2015-06-16 01:51:37 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.


No offense, but the reasons to fly them have come up many, many times in this thread. Primarily it comes down to two things.

First, a highly capable solo battleship can take on swarms of smaller ships. It isn't easy and it isn't for everyone. But it has been done, can be done, and is a direct result of game design.

Second, battleships in groups are more effective with smaller numbers than cruisers in groups. That was the point of the discussion circa page 8. Battleships simply scale more effectively because they can push out more damage per ship and can catch reps more effectively than cruisers.

It's actually not that hard to apply damage from a battleship, but you have to do it deliberately. It's easier to fly cruisers as a general rule, but that doesn't mean battleships don't have a unique role to play.


1. Swarms of what kind of smaller ships?

2. Effective for what?

3. I said the same thing. They have to fit completely to fight smaller ships.

No offense but, read the OP.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#389 - 2015-06-16 02:18:02 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.



It's already been established that your original points are lies, ignorance, and hogwash.
You are not qualified to give advice on ships and fittings.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#390 - 2015-06-16 02:20:00 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.



It's already been established that your original points are lies, ignorance, and hogwash.
You are not qualified to give advice on ships and fittings.



Yeah what part?

Who established it?

Are you the grand EVE Online "qualifier" now?

Get over yourself. Learn to be more objective and stay on topic.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#391 - 2015-06-16 02:35:21 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship. It dissolves into a bunch of personal attack. They ask for proof, I tell them to look at klllboards. They ask for reasons, I tell them because smaller ships have a game designed advantage. To top it all off, most of them fly battleships sometimes for PVE.

All my original points stand.



It's already been established that your original points are lies, ignorance, and hogwash.
You are not qualified to give advice on ships and fittings.



Yeah what part?

Who established it?

Are you the grand EVE Online "qualifier" now?

Get over yourself. Learn to be more objective and stay on topic.


Your very first sentence states that battleships are the most risk to fly. That is a lie. (Just 1 of many)

Every poster who has posted battleship experience has established that you are ignorant to the qualities of battleships.
Your killboard confirms it.

I'm not the grand EVE qualifier. But I can certainly say that YOU are NOT qualified.

I'm not really all about myself. I am 100% objective on all ships in EVE.
The fact that you are not qualified IS on topic.
Ortilus Orsides
Doomheim
#392 - 2015-06-16 03:35:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Is a constant excuse for poor game design. the inverse works in this case too. What if the players in cruisers aren't that good? What if the players in cruisers are elite and they still kill battleships? The problem with this thinking is that it makes assumptions. It is clear for players who understand EVE game mechanics that battleships are liabilities, that's why most players fly some sort of medium hull. Battleships are not the kings of tanking , and they are not the best damage dealers in the game. In order to deal full damage, they have to have support, or be going up against a pilot who is careless. Battleships are designed to fail.


The difference here is that I had the openness and ability to understand why I was wrong back then. That you don't demonstrates some of the things a few dozen people have said about you in this thread you made. You can get mad at me for saying that, and if that makes you feel better good, but you are deluding yourself.

Battleships are not solopwnmobiles for a reason. You can solo with them, but only if you are actually good at the game There are very good reasons why different ship classes are good for different things cruisers are useful, but so at Battleships in the right circumstances... You seem to want some kind of "I Win" button and that's wrong.

A question that I have that you haven't mentioned yet is why you worry about what other people are doing? If everyone thought like you, those people in those videos many of us have linked (that you dismissed) wouldn't be doing incredible things in battleships. Hell, if Baltec though like you there'd have been no "Baltec Fleet" which was a thing of beauty to behold.

I think you just trying to compensate for you personal inability here.

As usual, not a single objective point in you entire post.


Those are some mighty powerful ego defense mechanisms you have there, but the problem with that is they don't serve you in the long run. Learning the flaws in your thinking (like I did then, and as I continue to do) stings at 1st but it makes you stronger, but doing what you are doing hurts down the road.

Either way, it's your life, but damn man. Just damn.


I told ya.... Behold the power of the Arch Troll.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#393 - 2015-06-16 03:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Good Reasons to fly BS given:
Wormhole PvE and PvP. Low Sec Pve and PvP. Nullsec PvE and PvP. Missions and wars in hisec. Incursions. Killboards will verify that the BS is good for the PvP end. Wallets will verify that they take care of business in PvE. Lots of ships have lots of roles. Fly intelligently.

@ Jenn, I had this...
https://www.c64-wiki.de/index.php/BattleTech_%E2%80%93_The_Crescent_Hawk%27s_Inception

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#394 - 2015-06-16 04:10:10 UTC
Sooo much time spent on Crescent Hawk Inception.
I could swear I have a DOSbox version of it somewhere.
Mech Commander Gold was another fun one.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#395 - 2015-06-16 04:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
RavenPaine wrote:


Your very first sentence states that battleships are the most risk to fly. That is a lie. (Just 1 of many)

Some objective gameplay reasons:
1. least likely to survive a gatecamp
2. Take full damage in fleets which makes them useless concerning tank
RavenPaine wrote:

Every poster who has posted battleship experience has established that you are ignorant to the qualities of battleships.
Your killboard confirms it.

this is not my only character and, I don't get my jollies by posting to some 3rd party site about my video game activities.
RavenPaine wrote:

I'm not the grand EVE qualifier. But I can certainly say that YOU are NOT qualified.

Please! You are worse off than everyone else because, you're too close minded to listen to truth.
RavenPaine wrote:

I'm not really all about myself. I am 100% objective on all ships in EVE.
The fact that you are not qualified IS on topic.

Just like I said before, you've got nothing to argue with. I fear you are getting too emotional to continue peacefully. So this is my last response to your comments.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#396 - 2015-06-16 04:43:54 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Its strange how in this thread no one can give good reasons to fly a battleship.

ftfy

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#397 - 2015-06-16 05:17:43 UTC
i feel compelled to train into battleships!

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#398 - 2015-06-16 06:13:54 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
i feel compelled to train into battleships!


The Rattlesnake is king of T1 BSs. Can do it all, PVEing, PVPing, Baiting, Ratting, Anoms, and even DEDs.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#399 - 2015-06-16 07:02:14 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
Aza Ebanu wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:


Your very first sentence states that battleships are the most risk to fly. That is a lie. (Just 1 of many)

Some objective gameplay reasons:
1. least likely to survive a gatecamp
2. Take full damage in fleets which makes them useless concerning tank
RavenPaine wrote:

Every poster who has posted battleship experience has established that you are ignorant to the qualities of battleships.
Your killboard confirms it.

this is not my only character and, I don't get my jollies by posting to some 3rd party site about my video game activities.
RavenPaine wrote:

I'm not the grand EVE qualifier. But I can certainly say that YOU are NOT qualified.

Please! You are worse off than everyone else because, you're too close minded to listen to truth.
RavenPaine wrote:

I'm not really all about myself. I am 100% objective on all ships in EVE.
The fact that you are not qualified IS on topic.

Just like I said before, you've got nothing to argue with. I fear you are getting too emotional to continue peacefully. So this is my last response to your comments.


Most likely to survive a gate camp.... That's how bait works silly.
Taking full damage is the objective sometimes. It keeps the prey from jumping the gate.

Battleclinic gets your killmails auto-posted from eve. I know you have other characters.. every subscription gets 3 characters.


I'm worse than everyone else because I call your bullshit? Blunt, I admit, but not close minded.
You are the guy with the blinders on. You are the guy that ignores video proof of achievement. VIDEO. PROOF. A pretty powerful tool that you seem to dismiss at will. Organizations like the FBI and CIA generally take video proof very seriously.

I have another character too. Between the two of them I have about 600 BS kills. That is plenty to argue with.
And you misjudge my emotions. This stuff makes my day. It's fun to pick you apart.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#400 - 2015-06-16 07:31:55 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

2. Take full damage in fleets which makes them useless concerning tank
.


cruisers vs cruisers, if your fleet isn't applying full damage on other cruisers you clearly brought the wrong tool or your FC ****** up