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Do not train to fly battleships
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afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2015-06-09 21:31:39 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
Ignoring the last 10 pages.

If you think a battleship is a glass cannon, you've done the whole "battleship" thing wrong. Put some damn tank on it next time. The large size of guns are just a bonus to the point of battleship hulls themselves. Develop a theory of use, trial and error, make adjustments, and then profit.

The volley of battleship guns is the main draw. Trying to pump a few hundred more DPS wastes the tanking and ewar potential of all the mids and lows. It is essentially a point that the battleship guns are there to nuke something off the field, such as cruisers who get double webbed by your tacklers.

If you have issues with your battleship being slow and being a glass cannon, then perhaps you need to redesign your modules and rigs.

Greatest tank in the game is sig/speed tank. Worst weapon system is a large weapon system. It will rarely hit it's target for all the damage those weapons can do on paper. Battleship electronic systems are pretty bad too.



Are you a Fuzzy alt? It's all clear now. You like high speed kiting ships. Nothing else matters to you. So, since you can't make a high speed kiting BS you can't fly them, you don't understand them and you're 2 narrow minded to listen to 30 guys and 10+ pages of stuff. You're that special kind of forum guy that holds onto his (wrong - see previous many pages) notions and just won't let go.

Please - you're right - BS are totally the suxors and should be removed from the game. Your stupid has tanked our factual reason. You win! Please - go away.

Read the OP. 10 pages of gang theory, and t2 battlships, high sec POS bashing, and some snark. No one has said a way battleships are designed superior to other ships for the ISK and SP invested in them. They are fun to fly, good at PVE, and are your best option for high sec POS bashing.


What isk and skills? They cost less than a HAC after insurance and fitting and can be flown (much) quicker.

They could do with more off-grid mobility, i.e. travel help. to make them less annoying to roam with, that's about it. That's also what's really holding them back from their full potential as it stops folks taking them out as it shortens the potential route over the course of a fixed time window. i.e. not fun.

Naff all to do with them not having enough grunt once they land though.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2015-06-09 23:08:09 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
You read the OP. Then check out that dudes KB history. It makes me wonder why we would even discuss the issue with him. He has zero experience flying BS, so he really doesn't have a basis for anything he says. Not old enough to fly a BS and zero pvp experience.

If you know the guy, do him and the rest of us a favor.... pull him to the side and quietly tell him that ranting on some theory that he doesn't even have actual experience with is kind of.... not good. It's no wonder we can't reason with him. He doesn't even have a reasonable base of understanding to build on.

Shame on us all for this. (I especially blame Baltec1 - of all people he should know better)

Yes I agree that you shouldn't discuss this issue on this forum. You are too busy reading kill boards instead of the OP. All you have to do is figure out a reason to fly a battleship outside of PVE and high sec POS bashing.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#223 - 2015-06-09 23:32:23 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
IMO , the only one classes of BS worth to train are the black ops , no need to roam gate to gate , possibility to cloack easily , reduced jump fatigue etc etc etc

Marauders are worth to train to , for high end pve in Wh for exemple (or high end pvp like big maker do with nanovargur xD)
T1 battleship need a complete rework to be worth to train/invest to it (pvp or pve)

my 2 cents

But it's the same with most all subcaps. You train T1 to train T2. T2 is usually better than T1, at least for specific roles. T1's are insurable thus far-far cheaper to operate. imo this thread makes absolutely no sense. OP doesn't like T1 BS', but he says his opinion doesn't apply to Marauders. So don't train BS but training for a Marauder is ok? How do you do that w/o training for T1 BS first?? Have you even flown any BS on the test server, OP? This thread just seems like a long troll.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#224 - 2015-06-10 02:02:21 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
IMO , the only one classes of BS worth to train are the black ops , no need to roam gate to gate , possibility to cloack easily , reduced jump fatigue etc etc etc

Marauders are worth to train to , for high end pve in Wh for exemple (or high end pvp like big maker do with nanovargur xD)
T1 battleship need a complete rework to be worth to train/invest to it (pvp or pve)

my 2 cents

But it's the same with most all subcaps. You train T1 to train T2. T2 is usually better than T1, at least for specific roles. T1's are insurable thus far-far cheaper to operate. imo this thread makes absolutely no sense. OP doesn't like T1 BS', but he says his opinion doesn't apply to Marauders. So don't train BS but training for a Marauder is ok? How do you do that w/o training for T1 BS first?? Have you even flown any BS on the test server, OP? This thread just seems like a long troll.

When and why would you fly a marauder over a another ship outside of PVE?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#225 - 2015-06-10 02:53:20 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

When and why would you fly a marauder over a another ship outside of PVE?


To kill entire fleets alone.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#226 - 2015-06-10 03:02:33 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

When and why would you fly a marauder over a another ship outside of PVE?


Find a combination of 2 sub Battleships that a will kill a good Marauder,
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#227 - 2015-06-10 04:12:10 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:

Read the OP. 10 pages of gang theory, and t2 battlships, high sec POS bashing, and some snark. No one has said a way battleships are designed superior to other ships for the ISK and SP invested in them. They are fun to fly, good at PVE, and are your best option for high sec POS bashing.


Who is talking theory?

I have shown you a number of videos of battleships ripping apart up to 40 man fleets solo. Here is a solo typhoon and a raven vs your "superior fast tankers"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#228 - 2015-06-10 04:14:18 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
So, the real question is:
What can be done to fix this horrendous issue?

A game that provides 22+ years of skilling, should not top out at cruiser hulls.


Double their EHP. For starters.

Otherwise in the rock/paper/scissors environment of EVE it will always be necessary to bring friends to fight things outside of your role. In the meantime a couple of destroyers shouldn't be pasting a mid-range battleship in 30 or 40 seconds.


You were saying?
Icarius
The Wings of Maak
#229 - 2015-06-10 08:22:52 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
IMO , the only one classes of BS worth to train are the black ops , no need to roam gate to gate , possibility to cloack easily , reduced jump fatigue etc etc etc

Marauders are worth to train to , for high end pve in Wh for exemple (or high end pvp like big maker do with nanovargur xD)
T1 battleship need a complete rework to be worth to train/invest to it (pvp or pve)

my 2 cents


Would you engage my typhoon fleet?, i am not sure Big smile
Eridon Hermetz
Jump 2 Beacon
OnlyHoles
#230 - 2015-06-10 09:28:43 UTC
huehuehuehuehue !
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#231 - 2015-06-10 10:04:45 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
When and why would you fly a marauder over a another ship outside of PVE?

And you play..... EVE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUE8LWAUhSg

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Switch Savage
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#232 - 2015-06-10 10:10:27 UTC
Aza Ebanu you can sit and say T1 Battleships are only useful for structure grinding. But to do so you have to flat out ignore the people out there every day using them successfully in solo and small gang environments.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#233 - 2015-06-10 14:43:51 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
You read the OP. Then check out that dudes KB history. It makes me wonder why we would even discuss the issue with him. He has zero experience flying BS, so he really doesn't have a basis for anything he says. Not old enough to fly a BS and zero pvp experience.

If you know the guy, do him and the rest of us a favor.... pull him to the side and quietly tell him that ranting on some theory that he doesn't even have actual experience with is kind of.... not good. It's no wonder we can't reason with him. He doesn't even have a reasonable base of understanding to build on.

Shame on us all for this. (I especially blame Baltec1 - of all people he should know better)

Yes I agree that you shouldn't discuss this issue on this forum. You are too busy reading kill boards instead of the OP. All you have to do is figure out a reason to fly a battleship outside of PVE and high sec POS bashing.


Reviewing your KB is a good way to deteemine how much experience you have with the class in question (in your case, almost non-existant). Seriously, youre flying a BS with t1 fittings and then ***** about BS being bad?.. BS arent bad, youre just not skilled for them in the least.

To answer your question though

Aza Ebanu wrote:
All you have to do is figure out a reason to fly a battleship outside of PVE and high sec POS bash.


PvP, more specifically, either solo or being supported by a gang. The dps/utility a BS brings with is very useful when fit properly. No cruiser can match heavy neuts, nor can they fit MJD.

Ive already presented you an example in which you did not respond to, but responded to everyone elses. But ill try again. What other ship can get over 100k EHP, do 800-1200dps, fit an MJD, and fit heavy neuts? There isnt one that can do all of that at once. Except battleships.

The other thing to keep in mind is because BS are rarely seen rolling around solo, they are great bait ships. Someone sees a lonely BS and thinks "easy kill" when theyre in their 5-10 man gang. I get good fights that i may not get in something like a gila/ishtar/deimos etc because they know those ships are deadly to other cruisers/frigs. For BS, when they see it, they think someone like you (unskilled, lack of experience, t1 garbage) is flying it and will be easy to overwhelm.

When their tackle jackdaw or svipul die in 3 vollies they immediately regret their decisions and leave.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#234 - 2015-06-10 17:20:56 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
huehuehuehuehue !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Y4keqTV6w

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#235 - 2015-06-10 23:17:19 UTC
Switch Savage wrote:
Aza Ebanu you can sit and say T1 Battleships are only useful for structure grinding. But to do so you have to flat out ignore the people out there every day using them successfully in solo and small gang environments.

Oh I don't doubt that Battleships can be successful in a fleet. or a gang for that matter. I just feel like battleships don't fulfill a role other ships could take and even be better at it.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2015-06-10 23:27:16 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Aza Ebanu wrote:
All you have to do is figure out a reason to fly a battleship outside of PVE and high sec POS bash.


PvP, more specifically, either solo or being supported by a gang. The dps/utility a BS brings with is very useful when fit properly. No cruiser can match heavy neuts, nor can they fit MJD.


That is provided your battleship's layout/role supports fitting neuts. ....
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#237 - 2015-06-11 01:52:23 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:


Aza Ebanu wrote:
All you have to do is figure out a reason to fly a battleship outside of PVE and high sec POS bash.


PvP, more specifically, either solo or being supported by a gang. The dps/utility a BS brings with is very useful when fit properly. No cruiser can match heavy neuts, nor can they fit MJD.


That is provided your battleship's layout/role supports fitting neuts. ....


Then don't use those battleship's to solo in. Not all battleships are viable in a solo role. Some work better in fleet settings, and require support ships. They can still fit MJD though, something cruisers cannot fit.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#238 - 2015-06-11 07:28:15 UTC
the easy way to fix battleships is give them a jump drive that has (max skill) range of 2.5LY and a Point defense system (High slot module), that has a set % chance of destroying an incoming bomb.
Valkin Mordirc
#239 - 2015-06-11 07:54:53 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
the easy way to fix battleships is give them a jump drive that has (max skill) range of 2.5LY and a Point defense system (High slot module), that has a set % chance of destroying an incoming bomb.



The only thing that would fix is making it Battleships Online rather than Cruiser's online.


Shifting the balance from one side to the other is not balance your only tipping the scale to something else. The only thing you get from that is Power Creep
#DeleteTheWeak
Kestral Anneto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#240 - 2015-06-11 08:00:56 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
Kestral Anneto wrote:
the easy way to fix battleships is give them a jump drive that has (max skill) range of 2.5LY and a Point defense system (High slot module), that has a set % chance of destroying an incoming bomb.



The only thing that would fix is making it Battleships Online rather than Cruiser's online.


Shifting the balance from one side to the other is not balance your only tipping the scale to something else. The only thing you get from that is Power Creep


Maybe, however, cruisers would still have a place (in this scenario). Solo PvP? Frigate/Dezzie. Small Gang? Cruiser/Maybe Battlecruiser. Big fleet actions? Battleships/Capital ships.
When you start getting 50+ people in a fleet, you SHOULD be aiming to use the best weapons platform for a prolonged fight, and that should be the larger ships.
As I see it, cruisers are for raiding, get in, mess your target/area up and get out again.