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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#1401 - 2015-11-26 14:02:57 UTC
This thread should have been closed awhile ago. Noone wants a 70 page anti-HS rantfest.

Ridiculous.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1402 - 2015-11-26 14:07:39 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
My bad for responding to the forum troll.


You could clarify WTF you meant instead of calling others trolls...

I experienced the event, but did not partcipate. What part needs clarcification in the mind of a Goon?


So you have never seen how the income flow while running them or the risk level faced when running them. You just somehow flew in a system where an incursion was under way and potentially faced some rats un-prepared.

Thanks for having an opinion on it I guess...
Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#1403 - 2015-11-26 14:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquilan Aideron
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
My bad for responding to the forum troll.


You could clarify WTF you meant instead of calling others trolls...

I experienced the event, but did not partcipate. What part needs clarcification in the mind of a Goon?


So you have never seen how the income flow while running them or the risk level faced when running them. You just somehow flew in a system where an incursion was under way and potentially faced some rats un-prepared.

Thanks for having an opinion on it I guess...

Im having an opinion on CCP installment of events where the fast majority of EvEs population is located and where everyone has access to the events. To me this is CCP coming to terms with the reality of this game. As well as an attempt to stir people into action.

How I came to wittness the engagements doesnt touch on this at all.

Regards
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1404 - 2015-11-26 15:52:16 UTC
Sansha Incursion are fine. If they pay so much ISK why aren't -you- running them?
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1405 - 2015-11-26 15:54:40 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
My bad for responding to the forum troll.


You could clarify WTF you meant instead of calling others trolls...

I experienced the event, but did not partcipate. What part needs clarcification in the mind of a Goon?


So you have never seen how the income flow while running them or the risk level faced when running them. You just somehow flew in a system where an incursion was under way and potentially faced some rats un-prepared.

Thanks for having an opinion on it I guess...

Im having an opinion on CCP installment of events where the fast majority of EvEs population is located and where everyone has access to the events. To me this is CCP coming to terms with the reality of this game. As well as an attempt to stir people into action.

How I came to wittness the engagements doesnt touch on this at all.

Regards


I still have no idea what event you have witnessed and suppose I will die still not knowing. Please do not post in this thread unless you have something of value to add, repeating the same old statements again and again only buries quality posts among this 70 page monster.

By value to add I mean concrete specific examples that validate your opinion. Many examples have been brought up as to why incursion payouts should be lowered. I have yet to see one reason why they should be left as is. I know you think that we just don't understand you or that we are out to get you but I can assure you there is no "them" or "us" and the people posting reasons for nerfing payouts have valid reasons for their opinions.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1406 - 2015-11-26 16:03:39 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Funny that people get upset when the cash cow is going to die. Its about time. No risk no reward or at least 90% lower reward. And farming the side and leave the mother ship alive is just plain nonsense.



That's one of those unintended consequences. People should be punished for letting the MOM live, not rewarded. So at the very least rewards should start to decay the longer you let the mothership live.

The original (flawed) idea CCP had for incursions is that pick up groups of local would form to fight them off so as to return their constellation to normalcy. That never happened, what did happen is roving gangs of isk hungry vagabonds formed formal 'communites' to farm isk for as long as possible. Incursion rewards would be fine if not for the over farming, and over farming only happens because the system offers no penalty for letting the Incursion's "boss" live as long as possible.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1407 - 2015-11-26 16:04:56 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Sansha Incursion are fine. If they pay so much ISK why aren't -you- running them?


We are, that's the problem.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1408 - 2015-11-26 16:08:12 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
My bad for responding to the forum troll.


You could clarify WTF you meant instead of calling others trolls...

I experienced the event, but did not partcipate. What part needs clarcification in the mind of a Goon?


So you have never seen how the income flow while running them or the risk level faced when running them. You just somehow flew in a system where an incursion was under way and potentially faced some rats un-prepared.

Thanks for having an opinion on it I guess...

Im having an opinion on CCP installment of events where the fast majority of EvEs population is located and where everyone has access to the events. To me this is CCP coming to terms with the reality of this game. As well as an attempt to stir people into action.

How I came to wittness the engagements doesnt touch on this at all.

Regards


And yet on any given day only 1.5% of players will engage in this activity that pumps out the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game (when ii takes WAY more people the generate the 1st and 2nd).

But somehow that's ok but it seems to an uniformed person that CCP seems to be catering to the high sec crowd. They aren't btw, Incursion runners are HARD CORE players farming in multi billion isk ships casual can't afford, the isk for those ships usually coming from null sec because a huge portion of incursion runners are null sec alts. Join any TVP or WTM fleet and ask on their comms if you don't belive this.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1409 - 2015-11-26 16:14:04 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Funny that people get upset when the cash cow is going to die. Its about time. No risk no reward or at least 90% lower reward. And farming the side and leave the mother ship alive is just plain nonsense.



That's one of those unintended consequences. People should be punished for letting the MOM live, not rewarded. So at the very least rewards should start to decay the longer you let the mothership live.

The original (flawed) idea CCP had for incursions is that pick up groups of local would form to fight them off so as to return their constellation to normalcy. That never happened, what did happen is roving gangs of isk hungry vagabonds formed formal 'communites' to farm isk for as long as possible. Incursion rewards would be fine if not for the over farming, and over farming only happens because the system offers no penalty for letting the Incursion's "boss" live as long as possible.


Nobody is attached the the constellation in HS since anything you do can be done 3 system away in another constellation. People don't push to close them fast because there is also no need to.

Cyno inhibition in null is a big deal and needs to be cleared in many constellation ASAP. In HS, meh...

Rats from incursion on gates in null pose a real danger. In HS, lolololololololololol...

Bounties cutoff on rat matter somewhat in null. In HS, well I guess I can go mission for agent Y instead of X...

There is just no point to killing it faster. Hell even if you made the payout go down, people would figure how long they can farm more sites before killing it to optimise their gain taking into account the slowly increasing penalty and then, it's respawn time!!!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1410 - 2015-11-26 16:16:51 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Sansha Incursion are fine. If they pay so much ISK why aren't -you- running them?


It's like people can't read English. Throughout this thread people have talked about how lots of incursin runners are actually null sec peple playing on alts (like me).

Like Baltec said. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. High sec incursions are so good they attract people like us when they should be content for local high sec players to use to get better rewards than they can get from mission running.

Then people will go "well, that's because null sucks, BUFF NULL", but that's stupid for 2 reasons:

If you buff null, its the EXACT same as nerfing high sec, because eventually prices will rise to accommodate all that increased isk null sec players make

And

For the reason above, buffing null is bad for the game, which means the only option is actually fixing the actual problem, that high sec incursions are too good for where they are.

High Sec people can be really short sighted and don't understand that by nerfing this cash cow for 1.5% of players on any given day, it make sit better for everyone (including maybe even incursion runners). LP will be less depressed across the board because some rich incursion runners isn't converting LP to get BPCs out of YOUR LP store that you grinded missions to get access to. Fewer null sec people will be in high sec reaping high sec rewards. Incursions will be shorter allowing people who actually LIVE in an affected high sec constellation to get back to the missioning , exploring and mining they enjoy. etc etc.


But hey, don't let any of the above stop you from supporting a broken status quo that basically screws up the game.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1411 - 2015-11-26 16:18:20 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Funny that people get upset when the cash cow is going to die. Its about time. No risk no reward or at least 90% lower reward. And farming the side and leave the mother ship alive is just plain nonsense.



That's one of those unintended consequences. People should be punished for letting the MOM live, not rewarded. So at the very least rewards should start to decay the longer you let the mothership live.

The original (flawed) idea CCP had for incursions is that pick up groups of local would form to fight them off so as to return their constellation to normalcy. That never happened, what did happen is roving gangs of isk hungry vagabonds formed formal 'communites' to farm isk for as long as possible. Incursion rewards would be fine if not for the over farming, and over farming only happens because the system offers no penalty for letting the Incursion's "boss" live as long as possible.


Nobody is attached the the constellation in HS since anything you do can be done 3 system away in another constellation. People don't push to close them fast because there is also no need to. ]


This is not true. Go to Dotlan and see where most the NPC kills are. Hint, SOE agents aren't found everywhere.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1412 - 2015-11-26 16:29:25 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Funny that people get upset when the cash cow is going to die. Its about time. No risk no reward or at least 90% lower reward. And farming the side and leave the mother ship alive is just plain nonsense.



That's one of those unintended consequences. People should be punished for letting the MOM live, not rewarded. So at the very least rewards should start to decay the longer you let the mothership live.

The original (flawed) idea CCP had for incursions is that pick up groups of local would form to fight them off so as to return their constellation to normalcy. That never happened, what did happen is roving gangs of isk hungry vagabonds formed formal 'communites' to farm isk for as long as possible. Incursion rewards would be fine if not for the over farming, and over farming only happens because the system offers no penalty for letting the Incursion's "boss" live as long as possible.


Nobody is attached the the constellation in HS since anything you do can be done 3 system away in another constellation. People don't push to close them fast because there is also no need to. ]


This is not true. Go to Dotlan and see where most the NPC kills are. Hint, SOE agents aren't found everywhere.


You can go to another SOE agent if "yours" is under incursion. CCP should make a test and put incursion in all system where SoE has an agent and see if it gets cleared faster or not.
Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#1413 - 2015-11-26 16:32:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Aquilan Aideron
Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet on any given day only 1.5% of players will engage in this activity that pumps out the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game (when ii takes WAY more people the generate the 1st and 2nd).

But somehow that's ok but it seems to an uniformed person that CCP seems to be catering to the high sec crowd. They aren't btw, Incursion runners are HARD CORE players farming in multi billion isk ships casual can't afford, the isk for those ships usually coming from null sec because a huge portion of incursion runners are null sec alts. Join any TVP or WTM fleet and ask on their comms if you don't belive this.

That poses a problem for all mmo. 24/7 "hardcore" multi-acc cashing etc etc players will always generate the most ingame currencies. What should be the recourse of the devs? Starving the game of worthwhile content/events? What if CCP nerfs incursions? Would it keep these people from overblown isk generation elsewhere? Personally, I dont want to see the game deprived of content, of features and ideas, because some folks are mmo overachievers.

If things are that bad CCP should introduce a cap for incursions, sure. Perhaps a dev might want to acknowledge the topic to validate the concerns.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1414 - 2015-11-26 16:42:30 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
And yet on any given day only 1.5% of players will engage in this activity that pumps out the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game (when ii takes WAY more people the generate the 1st and 2nd).

But somehow that's ok but it seems to an uniformed person that CCP seems to be catering to the high sec crowd. They aren't btw, Incursion runners are HARD CORE players farming in multi billion isk ships casual can't afford, the isk for those ships usually coming from null sec because a huge portion of incursion runners are null sec alts. Join any TVP or WTM fleet and ask on their comms if you don't belive this.

That poses a problem for all mmo. 24/7 "hardcore" multi-acc cashing etc etc players will always generate the most ingame currencies. What should be the recourse of the devs? Starving the game of worthwhile content/events? What if CCP nerfs incursions? Would it keep these people from overblown isk generation elsewhere? Personally, I dont want to see the game deprived of content, of features and ideas, because some folks are mmo overachievers.

If things are that bad CCP should introduce a cap for incursions, sure. Perhaps a dev might want to acknowledge the topic to validate the concerns.


your not depriving the game of content though, nerfing the income does not deprive anyone of content only isk

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#1415 - 2015-11-26 17:10:15 UTC
Have you considered that things are just the way CCP wants them to be? EvE propagates the survival of the fittest, the strong shall prosper. If you think about it this is exactly right up CCPs road.
The incursion runners have the means, the organisation and the will to reap the rewards. They take actions. If you want your share, claim it. The game offers a nice reward for those willing to take it. People sitting on the sidelines to moan dont seem to concern the devs. At least I dont see CCP commenting on the situation.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1416 - 2015-11-26 17:17:11 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Have you considered that things are just the way CCP wants them to be? EvE propagates the survival of the fittest, the strong shall prosper. If you think about it this is exactly right up CCPs road.
The incursion runners have the means, the organisation and the will to reap the rewards. They take actions. If you want your share, claim it. The game offers a nice reward for those willing to take it. People sitting on the sidelines to moan dont seem to concern the devs. At least I dont see CCP commenting on the situation.


CCP barely comment on changes they announce themselves and you think they will comment on stuff brought up in threadnought like that?
Aquilan Aideron
Wardecs go here
#1417 - 2015-11-26 17:24:16 UTC
Whats the half life of an average EvE player before turning into a bitter shell?
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#1418 - 2015-11-26 18:22:45 UTC
Aquilan Aideron wrote:
Whats the half life of an average EvE player before turning into a bitter shell?

I don't know but check the age of Jenn or any of those who consistently argue for nerfing high sec for your answer.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1419 - 2015-11-26 19:05:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Daerrol wrote:
Sansha Incursion are fine. If they pay so much ISK why aren't -you- running them?


We are, that's the problem.


So ppl like you and Jenn aSide filled your pockets to the brim and want close the isk faucet for others?
Very selfless of you.
Maybe those isk faucets are the reason for the inflationary plex prices...

Woa maybe this is an undercover plex-price-whine-thread?

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1420 - 2015-11-26 20:42:55 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Daerrol wrote:
Sansha Incursion are fine. If they pay so much ISK why aren't -you- running them?


We are, that's the problem.


So ppl like you and Jenn aSide filled your pockets to the brim and want close the isk faucet for others?
Very selfless of you.
Maybe those isk faucets are the reason for the inflationary plex prices...

Woa maybe this is an undercover plex-price-whine-thread?


THey are still filling their pocket and I would too if I didn't follow my personal "no alts" rule. It's easy, medium investement at most, low risk and better paying than pretty much anything but WH. Beside guys like me who don't want alts, there is only one other reason why people would not want to run that over anything else and it's being un-able to stand being in a fleet.