EVE General Discussion

With the same people i've been running incursions for almost 5 years now. We are still waiting you to contest us in vgs with your no logi bastion marauder fleet. You already know where we are so feel free to try whenever you want.



You know what? Im posting here because i got tired too. Tired of all those "facts" that are only opinions from people that know very little about incursion's backstage. Tired of all those leechers claiming that they always do insane isk when they run incursions. Because the truth is that they are not running any incursion. They are being carried through it, which is very different.

Leechers never lost a ship, never did or improved any fit, never had to provide any boost or intel, never had to wait for a fleet or a spot, never had to move lots of stuff to new focus 3 times in the same day, never paid any srp, never got ganked, never lost a contest, never had to change ships to fullfill another role, never did any role at all, never got a mass dc in a tcrc and never ran on an island or low. And despite all of that, they can do hundreds of millions per hour all day long.

I can't. I do incursions for many reasons but isk is not one of them. The fact is: everybody can do more real isk/h in HS just blitzking level 4 and burner missions. Proof and data. But is boring and lonely and the M is for multiplayer. I chose a nomad life in EVE to fleet up with my buddies. I go to incursions to talk with my people, to theorycraft, to test fits and to contest another players.

About balance. After almost 70 pages we have more or less this opinions:

- Remove them from HS, as OP claims.
For me this is a bad move because you are removing content. But for those that agree I say: remove them from game. Low and Null incursion pay much better already. Did you any low sec incursion, ever? I did. In the past.

- Reduce payment, risk vs reward, blablabla.
I dont care about payment. As i said, im not here for money, so i can live and deal with less payment. But most people are here for money. Today, a HQ site pays a maximum of 31.500.000 isk and 7000 CONCORD LP. My question is: how much should be paid? 20 millions? 10 millions? nothing? Please, next time someone says "reduce payment" give a number with some math backup or STFU. And if someone already did, post the link.

- Let them be, they are fine.

And that's all. Remove, nerf or Status Quo. I have other option.

- Replace them with Drifter incursions.
Hell yeah! I want this one. This is the first content that incursions get for a very long time. And we are very excited figuring out how to do beat them like we did with sanshas.

I dont know yet if we can beat Drifters, maybe its not possible, who knows. But I wonder: if we succeed, how many pages will have the thread titled "CCP NERF Drfiters Incursions"?

See all of you ingame, fly safe.

This is an amazing amount of butt hurt. And all over the fact that a thing in a video game is rather unbalanced and thus creates some really bad incentives and outcomes. I find this kind of response fascinating, it goes to show how far some people will go to not admit even a small truth if that truth is uncomfortable.

When was the last time you saw anyone (me or anyone else) complain about Wormhole income? Top end wormhole income is THE BEST in the game, and everyone is fine with it.

Why? DANGER. Those wormholes are the most dangerous place EVE has, they deserve the best income. That's risk/reward working right. I'm only a wormhole daytripper (I don't really like wormhole PVE), i admire folks who make a life there.

If Drifter Incursions replaced the stale Sansha ones and Incursion runners had to put their money where their mouths were for such a high level of income (8 trill per month) like Wormholers do, I'd feel the same way about them ("us", i run incursions too). No one in their right mind will complain when the income comes from tough , unsafe group PVE where player ships are regularly lost.

Sansha Incursions in high sec get talked about because they are easily survivable and farm-able, enriching a very small clique of high end pve players (like me) to the detriment of everything else in this game except FW missions. You simply can't get mad at us for pointing this out.

The problem with incursion isn't that it's a faucet so or course removing them from HS won't solve the faucet problem. Part of the faucet effect of incursion is nullified by the LP generation anyway and I really doubt this was ever taken into account in any faucet/sink graph.

The issue with HS incursion is how they are just head and shoulder above pretty much anything else in term of of income generation while also happening under the protection of CONCORD. To fix this there are effectively 2 way, you nerf the income they generate or you increase the risk. To choose the "right" path to accomplish this, you also have to set legit goals. Stuff like "do you want them to still be run close to as often as they are now?". If you don't care about how often they will get run after you make a change, then any way will work because the real end result is does not matter. Suggestion like "make CONCORD not protect people in sites" would definately lower the income of incursion runners by lowering the bling on their fits which slow down completion time and adding losses which also reduce completion time. The issue is, would the content still be run?

Removing them from HS has a potential similar effect. You don't see people run around to run the ones in LS because the added risk of no CONCORD seems to be too high to form up what essentially amount to a battleship fleet in a beaconed space pocket. Even before they buffed the spawn rate, the low sec one were only occasionally ran because most people could not be bothered to deal with what doing it in LS meant.

Lowering the payout MIGHT work but there are also flaws there. The LP side of of the equation is self balancing. Reducing how many LP you get per sites would lead to an increase of value per LP as the supply drops and the demand for CONCORD LP items is still there. The ISK portion of the payout could be slashed drastically as it's not based on the market. Dropping the ISK payout to a direct 1k ISK : 1 LP would reduce the ISK/sites in a good amount while also technically completely removing the "ISK faucet" element of incursion as you would burn all gained ISK on LP store purchase. Some leftover would more than likely stay as burning exactly all your LP might prove troublesome but it would be a step toward that.

This BTW does not take into account other form of income to which incursion runner who are jsut after good isk/hours figure could turn to. If you nail incursion hard while leaving mission blitzing as it currently is, lot of people would just swap their incursion bling boat to mission bling boat. If CCP ever want to play with relative income of different spaces, they need to take a broad approach or it will just generate a new FOTM.

The upside to that over removing them from HS though is that bailing out of the content when aggressed is still an option without knowing for sure that every gate out will be camped to catch your evac. Once out of the site, concord protection resumes. Players who are willing to keep an eye out for warning signs of incoming danger or willing to put up a fight would still be able to run them without issues and without rolling blinged ships through lowsec gates.

I doubt CCP agrees theres a problem with HS incursions, seeing that they deliberately located a high profit feature in an area accessible to all. Which, obviously, is the very idea of HS incursions?

Are you kidding me? I thought this whole time CCP were in their volcano lair in Iceland trying to come up with ways to fill their tear jar.

In seriousness though incursions are broken, CCP can't have intended them to be so perfected by players that they can be run without losses. Sort of reminds me of the situation with Supercap costs way back before every man and his dog owned one. Payouts could be lowered to 20m per HQ site and they would still be quite profitable. 20m per site at 15 mins per site works out at 80m / hr ignoring LP which can be left as is probably. Lowering LP payouts would only make LP store items more expensive and thats not the goal here. People running incursions for fun (if true) can continue to do so.

People are engaging in a proftable group activity in highsec. Nerf and wardec everything.

/forum

People are engaging in an activity that pays to well, so well that it attracts outsiders (ie people who don't live in high sec) to do them rather than sit around and make less in their own areas of null or low sec. Balance them with more risk/ ship oss or less isk.

/Discussion

High risk/smaller profit means less/no attendance. Of which EvE got more than its share. Im sure, for once, CCP is happy to try and provide an impulse to get a wider range of people engaged.

This thread is silly.