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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

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Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1141 - 2015-11-20 16:41:42 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...



Payouts (i think this is old data though)
31,500,000 ISK and 7,000 CONCORD LP in highsec for up to 40 pilots (maximum payout).
45,000,000 ISK and 10,000 CONCORD LP for low- and nullsec.

13.5mil extra for risking a fleet of 40 pve ships in space where YOU WILL get hotdropped against just running them in highsec with concord protection and pretty much 0 risk. SHOCK, HORROR i know what id rather do

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#1142 - 2015-11-20 16:42:17 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


You can't even definitely prove that 1.5% of the population is unbalanced to begin with. Nul sec ratters and level 4 mission runners have just as much, if not more, ISK potential. What you're whining about is that Incursion runners actually have fun with their PvE, as opposed to everyone else who is stressed or bored out of their minds. Or you're whining that you don't have enough ratters to kill because you can't be bothered to fight people who can fight back. You have no argument.

And CCP clearly plans to replace Sansha incursions with Drifter, and they've already realized that if you don't make Drifter incursions give a hefty payout, no one will bother with them. I suspect that problem will be remedied soon.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1143 - 2015-11-20 16:43:10 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


Lazy? Or is moving a fleet of 40 battleships through who knows how many hostile jumps a recipe for disaster?


@Valacus:
I have never advocated removing incursions altogether, and I don't plan to force you anywhere. Income should scale with risk; it's one of CCP's core design approaches, however right now it is backwards and you know it to be true.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1144 - 2015-11-20 16:47:38 UTC  |  Edited by: StuRyan
Jenn aSide wrote:


This is the thing that comes up with every income balance discussion. The lie that it's some attempt to get someone to do somehting they don't want to.


It comes up because usually nullbears cry that there is no content and in reality the way people play out nullsec is killing the content.

Jenn aSide wrote:


No one cares what PVE you do. No one wants you to move to nullsec. The idea behind balancing the combat PVe rewards situation in EVE has nothing to do with you personally, or what you like to do. It's about what is good and right for the game, even if that means your (and my own) imaginary wallet takes a hit. I've funded whole accounts for months with high sec incursions, in less time than it would have taken me in null.



Null sec PVE is perdominately solo based activties. All PVE in null sec doesn't require anywhere near the same level of coordiantion a HS HQ fleet does. BUT i'm curiuous why did you run HS incursion when you have null sec incursions that make you more ISK? That's right, you couldn't raise a fleet becuase your so called alliance was lazy...

Jenn aSide wrote:


The difference between me and you (and the reason I'm not and will never ask for a null sec income buff) is that I believe it's best to not be selfish when it comes to issues of importance like this. If I were as greedy and self interested as the high sec incursion running posters here are, I'd still be mad as hell about CCP fixing the high sec lvl 5 bug.

You can keep thinking it's some kind of ploy to get you to move man, it's a free world after all. But that's a lie, and you know it.


Lvl 5's are, like I said earlies, a solo activity. Why do you keep trying to make this argument you don't seem to understand the concept of group activities should be rewarded more than any solo PVE activity.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1145 - 2015-11-20 16:48:07 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...



Payouts (i think this is old data though)
31,500,000 ISK and 7,000 CONCORD LP in highsec for up to 40 pilots (maximum payout).
45,000,000 ISK and 10,000 CONCORD LP for low- and nullsec.

13.5mil extra for risking a fleet of 40 pve ships in space where YOU WILL get hotdropped against just running them in highsec with concord protection and pretty much 0 risk. SHOCK, HORROR i know what id rather do


Bear in mind that even taking an extra 10 minutes on a nullsec site could have got you 2 sites done in highsec. I seriously doubt that anyone in nullsec could come close to the efficiency possible in highsec just because of the added risk.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1146 - 2015-11-20 16:51:07 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...



Payouts (i think this is old data though)
31,500,000 ISK and 7,000 CONCORD LP in highsec for up to 40 pilots (maximum payout).
45,000,000 ISK and 10,000 CONCORD LP for low- and nullsec.

13.5mil extra for risking a fleet of 40 pve ships in space where YOU WILL get hotdropped against just running them in highsec with concord protection and pretty much 0 risk. SHOCK, HORROR i know what id rather do


Bear in mind that even taking an extra 10 minutes on a nullsec site could have got you 2 sites done in highsec. I seriously doubt that anyone in nullsec could come close to the efficiency possible in highsec just because of the added risk.


Hot dropped????? LOL you can't be hot dropped in a mobilized null sec incursion hahaha
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1147 - 2015-11-20 16:51:13 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


There is that other thing self-interested incursion runners cling to, the "isk sink".

"sure, 1.5% of players generating the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game is unblance,d but hey we sink a lot of isk when we cash in LP, it's ok!!". The problem with that is that we are talking ab out WEALTH, not just isk. When Incursion runners sink that isk, they are still gaining wealth and a highly disproportionate rate.

Because you can generate so much wealth doing high sec incursions, many folks who would otherwise be inclined to generate that wealth in space they actually live in, don't live in their own space.

This has 2 bad effects, it freezes out the high sec players who could use some 'better than lvl 4' wealth to progress in the game (ie that new guy in a maelstrom has to wait, because my null sec living ass is taking up space in his high sec incursion fleet), and (as mentioned) it creates an unassailable wealth faucet for null sec groups.. null groups wealth faucets should NEVER be unassailable.

(side note, this is also the problem with Faction Warfare missions. FW missions should be a way for FW players to generate income to do more FW stuff, instead they are wealth faucets for older, more establish, usually null sec players and groups to fund activity in reality safety, because he cares how many mission running bombers you lose. this causes FW to be farmvile rather than FW, people actually metagame outcomes in FW for farming purposes).



But hey, lets not let understanding the game and why high sec incursions are bad for all of us stand in the way you your selfish bleeting...
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1148 - 2015-11-20 16:52:34 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


Lazy? Or is moving a fleet of 40 battleships through who knows how many hostile jumps a recipe for disaster?


@Valacus:
I have never advocated removing incursions altogether, and I don't plan to force you anywhere. Income should scale with risk; it's one of CCP's core design approaches, however right now it is backwards and you know it to be true.


Intel channels, scouts same thing you've used to make null safer than hs.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#1149 - 2015-11-20 16:54:04 UTC
scouts dont show you the 60 man battleship fleet with triage support and dreads, doesnt matter how you paint it running them in highsec is more worthwhile

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1150 - 2015-11-20 16:55:34 UTC
StuRyan wrote:



Null sec PVE is perdominately solo based activties. All PVE in null sec doesn't require anywhere near the same level of coordiantion a HS HQ fleet does. BUT i'm curiuous why did you run HS incursion when you have null sec incursions that make you more ISK? That's right, you couldn't raise a fleet becuase your so called alliance was lazy... [/quote]

Taking and holding space is not a solo activity.

Also, why high sec incursions. Ask your self that. Why are their high sec incursions communities like WTM and TVP but none for null?

Because flying 40 pirate battleships and logi in null is STUPID, but CONCORD makes doing the same thing in high sec not stupid.

You seem enslaved by your own wallet, but deep down i think you know the truth, which is why you are here trying to defend the indefensible,.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1151 - 2015-11-20 16:55:43 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


There is that other thing self-interested incursion runners cling to, the "isk sink".

"sure, 1.5% of players generating the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game is unblance,d but hey we sink a lot of isk when we cash in LP, it's ok!!". The problem with that is that we are talking ab out WEALTH, not just isk. When Incursion runners sink that isk, they are still gaining wealth and a highly disproportionate rate.

Because you can generate so much wealth doing high sec incursions, many folks who would otherwise be inclined to generate that wealth in space they actually live in, don't live in their own space.

This has 2 bad effects, it freezes out the high sec players who could use some 'better than lvl 4' wealth to progress in the game (ie that new guy in a maelstrom has to wait, because my null sec living ass is taking up space in his high sec incursion fleet), and (as mentioned) it creates an unassailable wealth faucet for null sec groups.. null groups wealth faucets should NEVER be unassailable.

(side note, this is also the problem with Faction Warfare missions. FW missions should be a way for FW players to generate income to do more FW stuff, instead they are wealth faucets for older, more establish, usually null sec players and groups to fund activity in reality safety, because he cares how many mission running bombers you lose. this causes FW to be farmvile rather than FW, people actually metagame outcomes in FW for farming purposes).



But hey, lets not let understanding the game and why high sec incursions are bad for all of us stand in the way you your selfish bleeting...


Cry me a river...cough cough high end moons, countless moons that still can make you weatlh...even the ones that don't have minerials for your to mine can still be capped to make you space rich.

How about the constant isk printing of running plexes in null sec... seriously c'mon on testie
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1152 - 2015-11-20 16:57:16 UTC
StuRyan wrote:


Intel channels, scouts same thing you've used to make null safer than hs.


Null is safer than high sec? You're just full of these obvious untruths today lol. This is the same kind of dishonesty we always get from high sec people. I'm going to really enjoy it when CCP gets around to curtailing your gravy train.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1153 - 2015-11-20 16:59:13 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


There is that other thing self-interested incursion runners cling to, the "isk sink".

"sure, 1.5% of players generating the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game is unblance,d but hey we sink a lot of isk when we cash in LP, it's ok!!". The problem with that is that we are talking ab out WEALTH, not just isk. When Incursion runners sink that isk, they are still gaining wealth and a highly disproportionate rate.

Because you can generate so much wealth doing high sec incursions, many folks who would otherwise be inclined to generate that wealth in space they actually live in, don't live in their own space.

This has 2 bad effects, it freezes out the high sec players who could use some 'better than lvl 4' wealth to progress in the game (ie that new guy in a maelstrom has to wait, because my null sec living ass is taking up space in his high sec incursion fleet), and (as mentioned) it creates an unassailable wealth faucet for null sec groups.. null groups wealth faucets should NEVER be unassailable.

(side note, this is also the problem with Faction Warfare missions. FW missions should be a way for FW players to generate income to do more FW stuff, instead they are wealth faucets for older, more establish, usually null sec players and groups to fund activity in reality safety, because he cares how many mission running bombers you lose. this causes FW to be farmvile rather than FW, people actually metagame outcomes in FW for farming purposes).



But hey, lets not let understanding the game and why high sec incursions are bad for all of us stand in the way you your selfish bleeting...


Cry me a river...cough cough high end moons, countless moons that still can make you weatlh...even the ones that don't have minerials for your to mine can still be capped to make you space rich.

How about the constant isk printing of running plexes in null sec... seriously c'mon on testie


Ah man, you got me. Now I'm going to have to go move my personal pos off of my personal nulls ec moon (the one CCP spawns for you just because you go to null) because you figured it out.

The next thing for you to figure out is why you feel the need to lie over a video game issue, and what that means for you as a person...
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1154 - 2015-11-20 17:00:21 UTC  |  Edited by: StuRyan
Jenn aSide wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.

ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever


SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec....

SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet.

SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...


There is that other thing self-interested incursion runners cling to, the "isk sink".

"sure, 1.5% of players generating the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game is unblance,d but hey we sink a lot of isk when we cash in LP, it's ok!!". The problem with that is that we are talking ab out WEALTH, not just isk. When Incursion runners sink that isk, they are still gaining wealth and a highly disproportionate rate.

Because you can generate so much wealth doing high sec incursions, many folks who would otherwise be inclined to generate that wealth in space they actually live in, don't live in their own space.

This has 2 bad effects, it freezes out the high sec players who could use some 'better than lvl 4' wealth to progress in the game (ie that new guy in a maelstrom has to wait, because my null sec living ass is taking up space in his high sec incursion fleet), and (as mentioned) it creates an unassailable wealth faucet for null sec groups.. null groups wealth faucets should NEVER be unassailable.

(side note, this is also the problem with Faction Warfare missions. FW missions should be a way for FW players to generate income to do more FW stuff, instead they are wealth faucets for older, more establish, usually null sec players and groups to fund activity in reality safety, because he cares how many mission running bombers you lose. this causes FW to be farmvile rather than FW, people actually metagame outcomes in FW for farming purposes).



But hey, lets not let understanding the game and why high sec incursions are bad for all of us stand in the way you your selfish bleeting...


Cry me a river...cough cough high end moons, countless moons that still can make you weatlh...even the ones that don't have minerials for your to mine can still be capped to make you space rich.

How about the constant isk printing of running plexes in null sec... seriously c'mon on testie


Ah man, you got me. Now I'm going to have to go move my personal pos off of my personal nulls ec moon (the one CCP spawns for you just because you go to null) because you figured it out.

The next thing for you to figure out is why you feel the need to lie over a video game issue, and what that means for you as a person...


lol i guess we're done then. go figure how to make 1b a week from poses. the opportunity is there to make more than a hs runner.

PS: Lying? I'm not lying, far from it. and since you had the need to insult me becuase I've pretty much repsonded with the truth making you look silly. I'm done.
Bl00dyAngel
Independent Unique Snowflakes
#1155 - 2015-11-20 17:00:46 UTC
generally Incursions are not wrong, by concept. I love the idea to give players fleet expirence beside Pvp. And the rewards are fine too. They need a lot of organisation. And the risk was fine... an than the players adeptied. maybe some of you remember how many ships got wrecked in the beginnings. The problem is the scripted nature of the sites. if you know exact wich ships spawn where there is nearly no risk. make incursion more randome and we see ships die again, and everything is fine.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1156 - 2015-11-20 17:02:37 UTC
Bl00dyAngel wrote:
generally Incursions are not wrong, by concept. I love the idea to give players fleet expirence beside Pvp. And the rewards are fine too. They need a lot of organisation. And the risk was fine... an than the players adeptied. maybe some of you remember how many ships got wrecked in the beginnings. The problem is the scripted nature of the sites. if you know exact wich ships spawn where there is nearly no risk. make incursion more randome and we see ships die again, and everything is fine.


They still do die quite regularly in sites.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1157 - 2015-11-20 17:10:41 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
Bl00dyAngel wrote:
generally Incursions are not wrong, by concept. I love the idea to give players fleet expirence beside Pvp. And the rewards are fine too. They need a lot of organisation. And the risk was fine... an than the players adeptied. maybe some of you remember how many ships got wrecked in the beginnings. The problem is the scripted nature of the sites. if you know exact wich ships spawn where there is nearly no risk. make incursion more randome and we see ships die again, and everything is fine.


They still do die quite regularly in sites.


They do? I've been running them for years and only seen 1 or 2. Then again I normally flew with one of the big groups and got to sit basically AFK while my wallet filled up. Literally the only thing I need to do running a site is be able to see when my overview starts to flash yellow and click my mouse once; okay occasionally I press F1 as well you got me. Having a functioning pair of eyes is not exactly a high requirement for one of the biggest ISK faucets in the game.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
StuRyan
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#1158 - 2015-11-20 17:17:56 UTC  |  Edited by: StuRyan
Mr Mieyli wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
Bl00dyAngel wrote:
generally Incursions are not wrong, by concept. I love the idea to give players fleet expirence beside Pvp. And the rewards are fine too. They need a lot of organisation. And the risk was fine... an than the players adeptied. maybe some of you remember how many ships got wrecked in the beginnings. The problem is the scripted nature of the sites. if you know exact wich ships spawn where there is nearly no risk. make incursion more randome and we see ships die again, and everything is fine.


They still do die quite regularly in sites.


They do? I've been running them for years and only seen 1 or 2. Then again I normally flew with one of the big groups and got to sit basically AFK while my wallet filled up. Literally the only thing I need to do running a site is be able to see when my overview starts to flash yellow and click my mouse once; okay occasionally I press F1 as well you got me. Having a functioning pair of eyes is not exactly a high requirement for one of the biggest ISK faucets in the game.


LOL - I know that some communities have observers to make sure this doesn't happen and usually its 3 strikes and your out of fleet. Persistent offenders are banned.

Like I said more times than I care to say, HS Incursions fleets are incredibly well organised and becuase of that they are able to make a nice amount of isk/hour. If nullbears actually had the same level of ability and willingness to run them in null sec they would trump isk/hour 3 fold and thats even with the less blingy ships you see in HS.

None the less all it takes is a few people not paying attention and the fleet goes to pot and the isk/hour is nowhere near some of the figures you see quoted.

AND BTW the only site that takes less than 15 minutes to complete in a HQ fleet is a TCRC. DO you know how many of the other sites we have to grind to get a TCRC wall. on average you complete 4 sites an hour which can go up to 6 or 7 if you are lucky with the spawns. Regardless of spawn its the organisation of the fleet that you are being rewarded for.

It's surprising that null bears, with all their blues, can't actually work together to complete 4 sites an hour and double/triple the overall ISK faucet and ISK sink.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#1159 - 2015-11-20 17:33:55 UTC
StuRyan wrote:
If nullbears actually had the same level of ability and willingness to run them in null sec they would trump isk/hour 3 fold and thats even with the less blingy ships you see in HS.



So you think the solution is the whole of nullsec should put aside their differences for the noble goal of farming isk? That is what is needed to balance incursions? Ability depends on the space you are in, in highsec you have to do nothing to make the safe space. In nullsec most people have safe homes through hard work but the rest of the place is hostile removing your ability to run sites like you do in highsec. Willingness you can hardly blame them for taking the easy, logical, reasonable option that CCP have provided; it exists and others will use it so why shouldn't I?

You should try to separate your contribution to the fleet from the organisation provided by the community. Individually I know that I contribute 1/40th of our success and that there are at all times at least 5 or 6 people waiting to fill my spot should I get bored or anything else happen. You are basically being handed money for no effort by you. I shoot targets and broadcast for reps but I'm under no illusion that I'm actually having to put in any effort. The hardest part of highsec incursions to me is just moving my slow battleship around, and that says a lot about the risk involved.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1160 - 2015-11-20 17:40:26 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
StuRyan wrote:
If nullbears actually had the same level of ability and willingness to run them in null sec they would trump isk/hour 3 fold and thats even with the less blingy ships you see in HS.



So you think the solution is the whole of nullsec should put aside their differences for the noble goal of farming isk?


He probably does think that. Extreme self interest (ie don't nerf this thing i depend on, even if it's terrible) and prejudice (notice the word 'nullbears') causes delusion, and delusion makes unreasonable things (all null should blue up and incursion farm) seem reasonable to people like that lol.

Like I been saying, it really doesn't matter what people like that think. Some CCP guys has shown increasing signs of awareness of these issues when we talk to them at player events and such. It took CCP 3+ years to fix the high sec lvl 5 bug (and that was an acutal bug and one they knew about from the start), they'll eventually fix the situation we are discussing here too.