EVE General Discussion

300 mil in 4 hours is low. and then you go on to base your post on a low ball estimate lol. This is exactly what I'm talking about, you aren't particularly interested in the truth to the point that you aren't even considering what's being discussed.

Also, I've lived in null. The investment is MUCH higher for MUCH LOWER return. While you can make more in a wormhole, the investment is higher still.




That's pretty much BS. My incursion ship cost 2 bil total and I bought it 5 weeks ago after the toon i used finished training tech2 Artys. That's not even 15 hours of incursion running and for the last month I've ran at least 2 hours per night for the last month.

That same mach in null sec would have taken 26 hours to recoup it's cost (26 hours without CONCORD on infinite standby) btw. Thank you for helping me demonstrate the imbalance you are in denial about.



Lie or ignorance, the result is the exact same. But being ignorant of a situation and then REFUSING to test the situation for yourself (before you don't want to know the truth) is the exact same as lying. You could see the imbalance for yourself if you wanted to.

Sounds to me that is a problem with NS then and not HS Incursions. You seem to really ignore the man hour value.

10 man groups is 150 man hours
40 man groups is 600 man hours.

You think 1 person in NS should earn the same per hour? One person in LS? One person in HS?.

The time investment for incusrions is much higher than any other PVE event in EVE.

EVE is a solo game though right?

Your arguments don't even make sense anymore.

Right because securing space you can rat in a macherial is a solo endeavor... security, logistics, CTAs, diplo stuff, pos stuff, etc. You probably won't deal with it all personally but there is typically a lot of work from a lot of people going into living outside of high sec. In WH there is even some added chain mapping, WH rolling, and constant vigilance which is required. You can't just settle in and make isk constantly. There is always a roaming gang coming through or a WH rolling into your system. It can be fun to live in a challenging environment, but if I want isk for less effort I go incursions. Just mute the idiots crying about leaving their drones and follow broadcasts, rinse and repeat.

Feel such a system would create far greater than it would "destroy".

Economic & Universal impact would be limited, as the number of systems affected is limited.

At least the bomber alt makes you ISK from other players (for the most part) and not just magically makes it appear from concord.

I thought the implication was selling faction LP being other players through the market.

Nope, like Tyberius Franklin said, I meant that the majority of the ISK that you make from FW are from getting the LP and selling the items. Hell, at first the ISK from the missions is what lets you start to sell the items. I did the FW bomber grind thing for a while on a alt, was boring and took a while but made good ISK.

Still, I prefer to do WH or null exploration as a source of ISK. More exciting by far, even if the payout isn't as consistent.

omg lol someone show whoever took the picture how to clean up this mess... holy drone cloud

also things don't look so good for the corpie in the middle there... one lonely green star

There are some valid arguments above for either side of this discussion.

One factor that I think many of the anti-incursion side of the fence appear to ignore are the non-ISK benefits of people running incursions.

From what I have seen most people move into incursion fleets as a progression from running Level 4 missions. These people learn how to fit their ships properly & as they build up their ISK they shiny up their ships. Many will train up &/or purchase a second or third character to run as logi/support.

Sure some people will stay around & grind away at incursions, but there are other people who grind away at mining, trading etc etc. After all EvE seems to cater for the obsessive compulsive weakness many have. From my experience most people who try out incursions fade away after several months.

While incursion income runs at about 100-150M per hour, what many people do not factor in is travelling time, waiting time & time when there is no fleet at all. I don't have actual figures but I reckon half my time in incursions is spent doing "nothing", so my effective income drops by up to half. Add to that that most serious or even semi-serious incursion runners have 2 or 3 characters tied up then some simple math makes your actual per hour ISK income dreadful.

So why do people continue to run incursions? The answer to that is simple - it's called "community".

Various groups of people have gravitated into many little (& some not so little) communities. These end up as groups of like-minded individuals who (generally) have a degree of camaraderie & friendship that you cannot find in EvE easily. All of this outside the rigid corporation/alliance structure which is what turns many people off life in null.

In my case & probably most others, I can make ISK more easily doing other things. I choose to run incursions because I like the people I fly with & I have a sense of duty to repay them for the knowledge & support that they have given me previously. There are many incursion runners who think the same.

So if you anti-incursion people get your way & CCP nerfs incursion income it will not affect me. I will continue to try & get into fleets although I think if you succeed you will damage forever an important social aspect of the game.

If you really want to get more content in null I suggest that you look more carefully at your own backyards & fix your own problems.

It's kind of sad when someone argues ignorance about a point that was already clarified as being exactly what you were referring to. But if that weren't the case I suppose this thread would have died ages ago.