EVE General Discussion

There is a reason why gank tactics are not used vs actual fleets with logi support.

In any case the answer to a game imbalance is not to say just have players gank them ineffectively at a huge loss to themselves. After all, that argument could have been used for the tech moon imbalance.

that doesnt solve the issue though because it will just get farmed the same way current incursions are

I don't see how anyone can think it makes sense from a game design perspective to be able to make as much or more isk in HS than in low/null/WH. It just seems obvious to me that the most lucrative activities should take place in more dangerous areas of space.

I would expect a game to be designed in a way that increases income in more hostile environments either linearly or exponentially. I don't understand how it can make sense to so many people that an income graph seems to be something of a parabola in Eve.

I understand easy isk is what a lot of people want, but I can't understand that they think it seems right the way it is.

Also, the fact that people are complaining that easy isk in HS devalues the effort they put into holding sov or keeping a WH running seems easily understandable to me.

Why would anyone think a fleet activity in HS should generate comparable isk to a fleet activity in sov space or a WH?

I just hope the devs are only holding back on rebalancing HS isk until they have sov a bit more sorted out so they have a more legitimate direction to point people towards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but nullsec has incursions as well and nullsec incursions do have a chance of dropping a faction supercarrier BPC.

As for HS being more profitable than null, that clam is laughable. As someone who has activelly played in Higsec, Lowsec (namely factional warfare), nullsec and W-space my income comparison is W-Space > null > FW > highsec. And that's from 8 years of experience. In my opinion, that's how the income scale should be, since W-space is realistically the most dangerous and inconvenient space to live of them all.

From an alliance perspective, nullsec is even more profitable than any other area of the game, simply because of moon goo. If you want to complain about something that is really unfair in the game, then you shouldn't look past the base material of all tech 2 production being exclusive to one region of the game.

But of course, incursions represent individual income, while moon goo is alliance income which is not that well seen or felt by simple members. It may seem that highsec is "more profitable" simply because of nullsec alliance's policies, which mostly include grunts not having direct income from moon goo and not having a possibility to manage your own POS (for security reasons).


Bottom line is, I am not entirely certain how this thread survived this long without being closed as a troll. I mean the whole point of the thread is that someone thinks that a game mechanic, which is also available in both lowsec and null AND more profitable in those areas than in highsec is merely existing in highsec. What's the main motivation here? Jealousy?

Fun fact: ex Northern coalition (the real BFF coalition, not the alliance with the same name), including to some extent CFC didn't grab half of nullsec by running incursions, but by owning Technetium moons. Even with their superb organisation, that would be much harder to accomplish if it wasn't for monopolized moon goo.

This is the perfect example of denialism (and shifting goal posts) ever.

See, for incursions to be "unblanced", they'd have to have :

A) a lot of people doing them

and

B) Have a bad affect on the economy

Problem is, none of that has anything to do with imbalance. And It's hard to tell which one is dumber.
A thing is imbalanced based on it's relationship to other similar things, not on whether or not lots of people do it. What this poster just said is akin to saying "well yea he murdered someone, but since most people will never commit murder, no big deal".

And it's funny that the poster posts saying that the incursion community is small. Another poster in this same thread did that and even helped out by posting this super useful graph.

That's right, despite being, according to Tarpedo, a "Tiny" fraction of the EVE community, incursion rewards are the THIRD BIGGEST ISK FAUCET in the game. It takes 10s 100s of THOUSANDS of mission runners , ratters and anomaly farmers to generate more isk than "1-2k people out of 350k" (Tarpedo's own words).

I'd like to thank Tarpedo for inadvertently demonstrating the gross imbalance she was at that moment trying to deny even existed.

Seems to me that to some people, Denialism is a sport. If it was, this forum would would have many gold medalists.

But it has a CAP!!!

But yeah, slash the income. Just don't actually state a reasons since all that were provided can be shown to be sketchy with stats from the game...

This.

Fun fact:

Ice miners earn more per month than a moon tower does.

The length at which some people are willing to go to justify their personal cash-cow be left alone even at the detriment of the game is frankly quite... disgusting.

I've pretty much have to go through 35 pages of people twisting rationales, putting both hands on their ears, and playing dumb, and all that for what? To somehow convince people that EVE is not a game about risk vs.reward and that in a game that is centered around the accumulation of ISKs having a population able to accumulate such a portion of the total ISKs in such a rapid and risk-averse is fiiiiine.

Seriously though, that this kind of money can be made in high sec is bad, really bad and that from a perspective that few here have factored, the new players.
People come to EVE mostly because of the Stories, and the PvP but mostly the Stories.
If they learn that something that risk-free (and lame, again no Stories there) generate so much ISKs when they have went through the ganking, the constant paranoia of lower secs, a lot will feel cheated. You pretty much mess with their expectations there.

High-sec Incursions generate no Stories whatsoever for EVE. Wooo you farmed Sansha's minions for the Xth times, that's great!! Nobody cares actually and it's pretty clear you wouldn't either if it was not for the amount of ISKs you can make in total safety.

When I started I could quickly see that if I wanted to get more ISKs I had to go out there in lower sec, I mined Scordite and now I desired Kernite.
I did go in low sec for that Kernite, and got ganked. Lesson learned. But that's when I realized I found a game that had something that I was searching for since That game, if you do things right you are rewarded, if you **** up you die instead of being showered in epics (most of the time).

Nothing should make so much money in high-sec that the people doing it wouldn't feel the desire to get more out of it even at the risk of facing lower sec, that seems contrary to what this game seems to be good at.

No amount of spinning and 'just leave high-sec ALONE!!!" can

I don't bother with them because of opportunity cost. Someone earlier said they made 300 million isk in 4 hours. If I put my mind to it, I can make that much, or pretty close, doing things in HS that aren't incursions. I'm not going to mention them because people like you would cry wolf when there is no wolf. If anything, 300 million isk in 4 hours seems kind of meh to me personally because it's only a small fraction of the investment in skill points, multi-billion dollar ships, and social engineering required to get to those efficient numbers.

Never mind the fact people throw around isk/hr as a metric for an activity that's not entirely in their control. The only time such a metric matters is when you're blitzing missions in high sec because of the ability to actually sit there every day 23.5 hours a day without actually being interrupted if you wish to do so. Incursions take time to make up for the initial investment required to get into them to achieve these "crazy" payouts. Never mind the fact you can lose your bling and have a pretty big set back.

People aren't trying to lie or be sneaky. They really believe what they are saying just as you are as well. To assume people aren't being honest when there is no real reason to lie (CCP has access to data we do not), is a fault.

I'm going to come out and say this. A man who claims he is wise is not a wise man.