EVE General Discussion

well thats OP's drastic idea when really it just needs balanced a bit better, you would have realised that if you read a bit past the OP

Or..... we could believe Fozzie actually has real numbers that support the fact that individual income in null is fine....
And that the real problem with Null income is the number that can be doing things in the same system at the same time.

And quit trying to project blame onto other people rather than address the real issue, that you have to spread out so much that you are easy meat when making isk in Null in most ways, or you get in each others way.

Ok. So you think the issue is that it is too difficult (or risky) in nullsec to make comparable ISK to highsec incursions? Well that is the same problem - income in nullsec is not lucrative enough as compared to the risk-free and easily accessible incursion income.

People are voting with their feet. They are not bothering to eek out a living in nullsec as incursion income is too easy and too lucrative. Fozzie has those numbers and CCP has acknowledged in the CSM minutes there is an issue. Maybe CCP will come up with some compelling new gameplay or rewards to draw people to live and defend nullsec. But if Fozziesov is just the status quo made more vulnerable, hardly anyone is going to pick hard-to-defend nullsec over risk-free incursions as their income source and nullsec will be a larger wasteland than it is today.

Reducing the income from incursions 25% (or whatever) will not kill highsec. It will however stimulate player conflict elsewhere in the game by driving many players back into more dangerous spaces in search of income and make Eve a better, more dynamic game overall.

I do agree with you though that CCP is waiting to see how these dramatic changes to nullsec pan out before nerfing highsec incursions. When they see no one is moving to nullsec, they will act - my guess is that two patches after Fozziesov there will be a "rebalance" of either incursion income or incursion risk (new AI, more randomness, tougher NPCs, etc.) or both.

So incursion grinders, mark August 25th on your calendar and make sure you have ground out all the risk-free ISK you need by then as the hammer is going to drop on your income source. You heard it here first.

I see you still choose to participate in a discussion you know nothing about (falling back on the 'Fozzie must know' line line, Fozzie is a nice guy, but a PVEr he ain't) while still declining to actually go find out for yourself.

That makes no earthly sense. You obviously have access to the EVE Online client because you are posting here, you could spend some time sampling isk making activities across the EVE universe and see for yourself how broken the situation is. But you don't, because for some reason telling the truth about a small situation in a video game is hard?

Since you won['t take the time to do it, allow me to. Last night I flew my Mach with 2 incursion groups. WTM till they stood down (I joined at the end of their run), and then TVP. It took me 13 minutes from the time I signaled to join the WTM fleet, and I was on TVPs automated waitlist for 26 minutes (that in-game browser waitlist thing is freaking awesome)

Because I find incursion grinding to be not the most exciting thing, I self limit myself to 4-5 sites per run. Did 4 with WTM in an hour thanks to two TCRCs and 4 with TVP in a little more than an hour (2 NRFs, 2 TCRCs). That got me 252 mil isk and 56k Concord LP, lowball the LP sale that will come later and that's 300 mil.

That SAME mach, flown by a toon with MORE SP than my incursion runner, in null (ie space hundreds of people probably had to TiDi fight over) made on average 25 mil every 20 minutes.

That's 4 hours in Zero security space, exposed to any newb with a ceptor or dictor, in space that I and my group FOUGHT (against other people, TiDi and the boringness of structure grinding) for, to make what I made in HIGH SEC in 2 and a half hours protected by CONCORD and a squad of logistics ships.
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And since you've demonstrated in the past that you can't accept the truth of the above Nevyn, let me make an analogy for you. Imagine a game of Soccer (what most of earth calls 'football') where you have 2 choices:

Choice 1 is play via the standard rules. Long story short, your objective is to get the ball into the other team's goal, against opposition (both from opposing players and stoopid refs lol)

OR

Choice 2 (Soccer Incursions). Just stay in your own 18 yard box and kick the ball into your own goal over and over again and be awarded points for it, oh and no one can come into that box but your own teammates and the refs, if the opposing team comes into that box and even TRY to kick the ball away or into your goal , well, screw red cards, actual police officers rope down from the sky to whoop their asses.. Oh and each goal kicked into your own goal is TWO points as opposed to the piddly one point you get from actually playing the game against opposition.

That's the state of PVE rewards in EVE (except in Wormhole space which actually works correctly). I can take a whole bunch of risk (after expending a whole bunch of effort, starting with the effort of joining a sov holding group) and spend more time grinding than having fun , or I can literally cut that not so fun time IN HALF in HIGH SEC kicking an Outuni shaped ball into a Vylade shaped hole.

It's completely messed up, even if I am kicking the ball into my own goal because it would be stupid not to... But the thing that's worse than all of that is you won't go see for your damn self.

Did he really mention belt ratting like this is 2007 or something? LMAO. Sounds like a bad case of the lemons.

All of the proposed measures would make the entire incursion mechanic useless and nobody would do it. It is impossible to rat in large groups of multibillion isk battleships in null sec in such defined areas, it would be a ganker feast. So then you might as well remove incursions from the game altogether.

tl;dr of the rest of the the rest of the thread: nerf everything but nullsec ratting into garbage to the point where nobody would do it anymore. Good idea for making people enjoy eve and retaining players.

I agree fully to make nullsec PVE worth doing, but do not nerf all the activities that other people enjoy doing.

Also, incursion income is not as high as the OP says. It can be between 100-250 mil, 100 is when you have to run crappy sites because there are no good sites or because you cannot compete with other fleets that are running the good sites. It averages out to being a lot lower than 250 mil a hour. The OP is exaggerating for dramatic effect. Compared to wormhole ratting, incursioning is not worth the time at all, so I only resort to it when it is the only income available to me.

Damn, son. I like your style.

Wait a minute.

Wait a minute.

This is the best idea since... I can't recall that far back.

Make it happen. Ha-ha-ha.

Having enjoyable ways to generate decent isk is very important, yes.

Almost nobody does nullsec incursions.

Stop bitching that people in highsec can make isk and go play the game how you like it.