EVE General Discussion

Pay out in LP only, let the market sort it out.



The drone alloys caused the proliferation of supers.

I dunno man... I find incursions to be one of the most boring activities... I even find doing nullsec anoms with a passive drone fit less boring, and more profitable (I know this ain't highsec but meh... not much risk involved in running anoms either if you don't go afk).

its not the first time this discussion has been brought up and i doubt it will be the last

It's even better, Incursions have already been Nerfed since 2011 once anyway.
What they are complaining about is the formation of resilient adaptable communities that have learnt to deal with all the things gankers do. They travel fit their ships when moving, they move the super valuable modules in blockade runners or other cloaky ships that enter warp fast, they overheat tank when targeted or even if gankers simply appear on grid, logi know to pre lock when gankers are around on certain priority targets and pre overheat reps, yet apparently.... the formation of such a community of aware involved people is bad......
Apparently you can't succeed at EVE unless you play the Gankers way, otherwise they will demand it be nerfed or EVE will die.... or something like that.

Sadly, in Eve, Incursions are basicly the only form of group PvE.
Every other activity is made solo(Missions, ratting, even mining have become a "one person with multiple accounts", apart from the ocasional Corp mining fleet-weekly ).

Removing Incursions would be remoning a big part of Group PvE.
In an MMO, it's a sad thing.

It's the only reason I run Incursion, the fact that I'm in a group with others doing some PvE and making some isk. and having a laugh over coms.

Many people use Incursions as an easy and fast way to make isk, and then go spend it on other Public groups doing PvP.
And that's a good thing, people having isk to go and explode ships.

So, no. We need Incursions, and we could also have some other forms of group PvE. New types of missions, for example.....

Seifer

And that's really the entire point of the matter. The imbalance creates a huge distortion.

I've done a lot of PVE and I loved Incursions when they started. Can't do then for every long because they are so routine now I get bored. At least with null anomalies I can play around with fits and try different things, doing that in an incursion gets you booted from fleet lol.

But when I really sat back and did my personal time trials, I was appalled. In a good Incursion fleet we could do 4 HQ sites per hour or more (pray for TCRCs lol). 4 Sites, converting the LP for 1k isk per LP ios 154 mil, and all it takes to sustain that is "fleet up for incursions during late USTZ or early AUTZ". Much less (almost no) contests, almost no down time.

Contrast that with using my mach in null, pulling in 25 mil ticks. 25 mil every 20 minutes used to be "WOW, great!". Now doing that leaves me feeling like "yay, I just made half as much in an hour as I would have had i simply logged in my Incursion toon".. And the lamest thing of all is that I would have beat BOTH incursions and null anomalies had I logged in my Faction Warfare alt and flew around in a Purifier killing 2 or 3 npcs per mission per system....

And that's the distortion. Overly safe incursions and insanely stupid "mega isk with a frigate" faction warfare creates the situation where you are effectively punished for taking any risk.... For the purpose of generating isk for plex and ships and fun, It's stupid to rat with my Mach in null sec and risk losing a 500 mil isk hull when I could make MORE isk for things I want by using a piddly stealth bomber in FW, or using the same mach hull in CONCORD and logi protected high sec doing incursions.

Because those insane things exist, someone saying "you can still choose to do something else" is a really dumb false choice.

This game shouldn't be punishing people for taking risk. It should be saying (and it used to say) "wow, you took an expensive ship to low/null/wormhole space which incidentally creates content for others, here is a level of reward suitable for actually having some balls". We should all WANT people flying outside of high sec in expensive ships that can be targets.


Incidentally. This is why low sec lvl 5 blitzing with carriers is ok, it's a lot of wealth generated, but you're doing it with a capital ship, that's a big investment in time and isk as well as risking an embarrassing kill mail and the pain of having to replace a (now) hard to move capital ship.

Drifters in incursions ...
... popping Sanshas faster than players ...
... popping the moms ...
... and even the players.

That would be glorious!

Putting 30B+ into an engagement that can go sideways if people aren't doing their jobs is risk, the reward is making much more isk/hr than you would if you fielded fleets with much less isk investment. CCP even acknowledged this in their DEV post in the Hyperion Incursion Changes where they stated HS folks are using much more expensive fleets to clear sites faster than they would be able to otherwise. Just because these folks have taken steps to minimize risk does not mean they are absolved of risk. The risk is still there, they simply have accounted for it.


<1% of the entire EVE population can run incursions at any given time (Cluster Wide) it is not a ridiculous isk faucet, it is actually quite tame compared to ISK generated from Mission running/anoms/ratting, http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/rS2Gxq9.jpg

In regards to dank isk coming from NS. If that is something you desire, then perhaps you should make a suggestion to CCP about how Incursions roll through NS. NS is not as easy to traverse (time wise) as HS, perhaps there should be more incursions in NS so folks can also run them, or maybe CCP could add other pirate faction incursion like events, ie. Guristas sending out fleets to **** around regions near Venal.

There is nothing wrong with incursions, and risk/reward is not married to PVP, it also applies to PVE, if you don't like that thought, to bad, because risk is risk whether its an NPC providing it or a player. I mean its not like incursion runners have 0 PVP exposure, folks lose their incursion ships all the time, they lose their Bowheads and multiple incursion ships too.
Ultimately it all comes back to...these guys make more isk than me, and I can't be assed to participate in them because :effort:. Nothing stopping you from participating, except your own personal choice not to.

Not all space is equal, different regions offer more lucrative activities than others, EVE isn't fair.

You have a source for that other than 1 dev saying he think they might be paying too much?

A dev no longer with CCP...

ha ha ha ha (continues evil laugh).

It's always funny when someone post something thinking it supports their argument, when in fact it proves the opposite.

In this case, here is Mario Putzo proving that AT BEST a few hundred Incursion Runners generated almost 1/3rd as much as tens of thousands of mission and anomaly runners. Almost 10 TRIILION isk in incursion rewards in a month (and since we know how little low and null incursions are done, we know that the overwhelming lion's share of incursion rewards are paid in high sec), in an activity that this poster claims can only accommodate a few people, compared to 30 trillion isk in bounties for the entire rest of the EVE PVE community.

In other words, Putzo demonstrated the game altering imbalance that he declares isn't a problem, because a few hundred people can generate so much isk it's comparable to the activities and efforts of tens of thousands of other players. Thanks Mario, we needed the back up there.