EVE General Discussion

That would suck because no-one would run them and nothing snuffs out PvP like an incursion in the area. Not even concord is so effective.

Too many roams already have moments of "ah ****, guys. Incursion. /sigh. Burn to the end of it at best speed"

To be fair they said "potentially". Then buffed them immediate after.

Mixed messages there!

Why shouldn't it be? If CCP didn't like it, why buff them 6 months ago. Clearly CCP feels Incursions are fine as they are, the only folks who seem opposed to them are the same folks who show up in every "Whaaa HS Risk/Reward" whinathon.

Risk/Reward is not a balance mechanic, and it never has been. Its a placebo.[/quote]

CCP were fine with the original FW mechanics. They were also fine with tech moons and the original payouts of incursions. Time after time CCP have been forced to make changes when we started to abuse them. The same people are telling everyone that high sec pve is too lucrative compared to the rest of EVE.

This is of course untrue (there you go talking about things you know nothing about).

300 million isk per hour with cheap ships isn't poor. (have to know how to convert LP, but still, it's good isk for little investment).

Nor is this. (it's not 600 mil per hour anymore but 3-400 mil is nothing to sneeze at. My alt is in the minmatar militia

This neither., my actual bread and butter, a few hours on the weekend for a couple plex. Start up overhead is 6 bil though for 3 carriers (more if you need tp put up POSes), but it's worth it.

Low sec is a better place to make individual isk in than any place else. BUT with the exception of FW, risk balances out the reward.

Not so in high sec.



I'v'e found your other problem (the 1st being ignorance of pve), it's an incorrect worldview. One in which you justify game world altering (and content stifling) imbalances by arbitrarily assigning functions to different parts of EVE space.[/quote]

EVE isn't fair, EVE isn't equal. Different places offer different things. NS puts down billions in infrastructure to get statistically the best production, they put down billions in POS to get the best moon minerals, they have access to the best loot drops, they have access to the best array of mining minerals (which got better today).
[/quote]

And this is again wrong, the best loot drops come from low sec, with the rare exception farming low end anoms in the lowest true sec systems, you can't get things like pithum and gistum shield boosters and invuls in null. you can't get clone soldier or mordus stuff at all with some exceptions for the mordus stuff. But that's ok, low sec at least has risk.

Null sec loot drops tend to be crap. If you don't beleive so, go check the prices of pith xl shield boosters and compare their prices with faction xl shield boosters high sec mission runners sell from lp stores.



And there is the tell. "don't reduce my high sec income". It doesn't matter what game curving imbalances exist, just don't touch me stuff.

Of course there are mixed messages, because historically CCP is horrible at PVE (making it, understanding it, and iterating on it). Hell, of all the devs they've culled from the community, I don't know of one that is a PVE-centric player.

Back when CCP modified 'normal' npc behavior to be more like sleepers, some of us pointed out to the devs that 'aggro switching' in DED complexes where the overseer shoots citidel torps would kill the content. Eventually CCP changed it to the current (overseers and turrets don't switch aggro) as a compromise, but one of the main DEVs working on the AI said on these forums that he was familiar with the most common high end DED complexes...

And i'll link it again: The above is why this didn't work, they didn't understand what people would do, it's not 'fight for better space' as they predicted, it's "move big alliance alts to better PVE space in high, low and wh space and rent out the remaining null space to renters too stupid to do the same".

TL:DR CCP could use some real PVE jocks on the team.

+1

FW missions are still broken, but i don't complain about the rest of low sec because there is risk. Wormhole space works right. Null sec is 'livable' even lucrative, but several aspects of high sec (missions blitzing, SOE and Thukker Agent Mission blitzing, Mission 'Farms" and Incursions) are various levels of Fubar'd and need reworking (not necessarily "reducing", for example switching some incursion pay out from isk to LP and decreasing the "CONCORD to other LP" conversion rate so CONCORD LP is worth more would go a long way to helping reduce the problem).

But some people are in so much denial that they prefer to pretend that the observable and testable imbalance doesn't even exist, so having a discussion about how to fix it can't ever get started.

Calm down sir, somebody will be here to pick you up shortly.

D.

Option C: advocate CCP figure out it's PVE aspect so as to make the game better for everyone, including the High Sec pve crowd that is too short sighted to see how the imblance screws them (by attracting people like me who would rather LIVE in sov null but who can't resist making twice as much isk in safety, thus taking up finite incursion fleet slots high sec PVErs could be enjoying).





No one wants unwilling people to move. We want to be able to live in the space we fight for (or scan donw in the case of wormholes, or simply inhabit in the case of low sec). Having alts chained to high sec for easy isk making is not good game design.

You high sec types (and you talk like one) should want us gone. That you don't speaks to the short sightedness I mentioned earlier.



You've pinned your worldview on the idea that someone cares where you play. Nothing could be further than the truth.
And not everyone plays in HS because they want to, they do so because in the quest for enough isk to both plex and pay for fun ships, High Sec is the 2nd best option going (FW missions being the 1st). Solving the imbalance (that you could observe for yourself but choose to remain ignorant of) makes the situation better for everyone, as everyone gets to 'play they way they want to'.




Isk is a tool, how you acquire it is important to the overall game. As it is now, the system (the core risk reward system CCP bases damn near everything on) is broken almost everywhere (like for example,using anomalies as the core of the systems upgrade scheme was a bad move).

Sorry if people who actually understand the issue liking to talk about it offends you. You'll just have to get over it i guess.

Well i never said that. But inflation in a closed economy is highly irrelevant. In the real world high inflation is bad because it lowers the value of a nations currency vs competitor nations. Resulting in more expensive imports, and less lucrative exports. Since EVE has no competitive currency market, ISK can be worth absolutely nothing in valuation. So ya it kind of is a hoax in the game since it has absolutely no positive or negative impact on the health of the economy as whole.

About the only thing impacted would be PLEX conversion, but fun fact, PLEX isn't mandatory to experience EVE, it is a secondary option for a variety of Cash transactions. If you can't afford a PLEX...get a job and pay the sub.

This is a pretty bottom of the barrel argument. If you want to come do incursions cool, its a first come first served system, if other people don't like that you are taking up a spot, they can make their own fleet, or X up before you do. Hardly indicative of an imbalance.



That is a personal choice, there is no mechanic in the game forcing you to come to HS to do incursions. You can in fact make enough isk/hr to PLEX your accounts or w/e you want living in NS. You choose to come to HS, CCP in no way makes you. In regards to wanting you gone.. Why should I want that, it literally has no impact on the game whatsoever if you live in NS and play in HS, so I really could care less, and most HS folks feel the same, your presence in HS is of 0 concern to anyone. Period.



Yes CCP cares where I play, they have in fact stated numerous times over the past year they are going to be making some sweeping changes to encourage people to move to NS, Industry revamp, mining revamp, upcoming sov revamp all for the sake of making NS more attractive. Now I don't care about players opinions on where I live, but CCP is currently in the process of revamping NS pretty much from the ground up just for this very reason. What CCP doesn't get is that most folks in HS just have no desire to live in NS at all, CCP can make it as lucrative as they want and many many people will still not move. Some might, most won't.



The system is far from broken, you can make more than enough ISK to live and thrive in every region in this game as of today. There is no one forcing you to play in any region of space, you choose that of your own free will. You chose to live in NS, and you choose to PVE in HS...that is cool and nothing wrong with that, and again is not indicative of any imbalance. There is no law that states NS must have the highest isk/hr, there is no law that states NS must at all times be the most dangerous space. The only thing that needs be balanced is the ability for players to earn a living that is either at or above the cost of living in the region they so choose to reside in. If you want to commute for more ISK/hr then by all means continue to do so, that choice however does not mean NS is some wasteland where it is impossible to earn an income, every area in this game is entirely self sufficient in terms of pure isk generation...balance.