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CCP - End Highsec Incursions

First post First post
Author
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#381 - 2015-04-28 13:38:05 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

A carrier training time is irrelevant, its a tool that you train into to maximise your return.


It's highly relevant, you just want to discard it because it goes against your narrative. He's not the liar here, you are, desperately spinning around trying to avoid the elephant in the room, that highsec incursions are absolutely broken.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#382 - 2015-04-28 13:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mashie Saldana
baltec1 wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


You can still do that.


And I wasn't even the biggest playa in the community, I knew guys who were doing incursions with like 10 alts, I knew a guy who was farming vanguards with his own fleet.


Imagine that isk.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#383 - 2015-04-28 13:40:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Good god man you are after one of the bling fitted BS...


Which not only sports a large tank but is supported by logistics and a fleet that will open fire back.


Many won't open fire. The gank attempts I saw were always missed by lack of alpha or dps and CONCORD killed their ABC. Not the fleet killing them off.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#384 - 2015-04-28 13:42:05 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


Wow

Back before the various anom and titan nerfs, I buddy of mine used to blitz the hell out of forsaken hubs in null using an Avatar Titan and a Tracking Link Scimitar (with a Web to fling the Titan around). That tactiic in pve and pvp led to the Titan nerf where Titans can't receive those kinds of remote buffs anymore lol. He made about 500 mil per hour doing that.

And you beat him by a Quarter bil per hour... in high sec.

Dayum. RIP isboxer lol.
Danalee
A Blessed Bean
Pandemic Horde
#385 - 2015-04-28 13:44:39 UTC
I'll repeat this proposal a few times... I think it has merrit;

- Make it so the Sansha NPC's (are they called that?) put a sort of bounty on incursion runners to attract gankers and make it potentially profitable to execute a well organised gank on an incursion fleet. Sansha paying 'merc' capsuleers to kill their opposition makes sense, doesn't it?

- Slow down concord response times by a lot in incursion systems.

Profit.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#386 - 2015-04-28 13:47:31 UTC
Danalee wrote:
I'll repeat this proposal a few times... I think it has merrit;

- Make it so the Sansha NPC's (are they called that?) put a sort of bounty on incursion runners to attract gankers and make it potentially profitable to execute a well organised gank on an incursion fleet. Sansha paying 'merc' capsuleers to kill their opposition makes sense, doesn't it?

- Slow down concord response times by a lot in incursion systems.

Profit.

D.

Bear


The second one in terms of Concord response time has merit in it, that would make sense in game terms.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#387 - 2015-04-28 13:48:16 UTC
Danalee wrote:
I'll repeat this proposal a few times... I think it has merrit;

- Make it so the Sansha NPC's (are they called that?) put a sort of bounty on incursion runners to attract gankers and make it potentially profitable to execute a well organised gank on an incursion fleet. Sansha paying 'merc' capsuleers to kill their opposition makes sense, doesn't it?

- Slow down concord response times by a lot in incursion systems.

Profit.

D.

Bear


But, Danalee! That would mean that the carebears can't go right on with the extremely unbalanced status quo! That's not fair!

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#388 - 2015-04-28 13:48:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

A carrier training time is irrelevant, its a tool that you train into to maximise your return.


It's highly relevant, you just want to discard it because it goes against your narrative. He's not the liar here, you are, desperately spinning around trying to avoid the elephant in the room, that highsec incursions are absolutely broken.


Slash it by half and see what happen. I just don't want them to go away as the OP suggested.

Risk/reward is forever broken IMO because there is no number that can be put to make a real ratio out of it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#389 - 2015-04-28 13:51:17 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

A carrier training time is irrelevant, its a tool that you train into to maximise your return.


It's highly relevant, you just want to discard it because it goes against your narrative. He's not the liar here, you are, desperately spinning around trying to avoid the elephant in the room, that highsec incursions are absolutely broken.


Slash it by half and see what happen. I just don't want them to go away as the OP suggested.

Risk/reward is forever broken IMO because there is no number that can be put to make a real ratio out of it.


I don't want them removed unless it's out of the question to just make incursions systems default to lowsec. In which case, yes, I want them gone.

But I'd much rather the former, it would be fun to see pockets of lowsec pop up in different places every day.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#390 - 2015-04-28 13:53:01 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


Wow

Back before the various anom and titan nerfs, I buddy of mine used to blitz the hell out of forsaken hubs in null using an Avatar Titan and a Tracking Link Scimitar (with a Web to fling the Titan around). That tactiic in pve and pvp led to the Titan nerf where Titans can't receive those kinds of remote buffs anymore lol. He made about 500 mil per hour doing that.

And you beat him by a Quarter bil per hour... in high sec.

Dayum. RIP isboxer lol.


Isboxer always scaled pretty well as long as you were able to get the spots in the same role. I mean the groups already behave like a blob by anchoring and following a target order so you really can't get much trouble by having copies of yourself. You need to PLEX more account but you get over that cost rather fast if you are willing to put in the required time.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#391 - 2015-04-28 13:55:52 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


You can still do that.


And I wasn't even the biggest playa in the community, I knew guys who were doing incursions with like 10 alts, I knew a guy who was farming vanguards with his own fleet.


Imagine that isk.


There are still people running ISboxer 20 man incusion fleets.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#392 - 2015-04-28 13:57:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Well, it's true it got kinda out of hand, back when ISBOXER wasn't banned I was doing incursions with 5 alts, I was earning about 750 mil/hour.

Made more than 100 billion isk in a few months.


Sniff.


You can still do that.


And I wasn't even the biggest playa in the community, I knew guys who were doing incursions with like 10 alts, I knew a guy who was farming vanguards with his own fleet.


Imagine that isk.


There are still people running ISboxer 20 man incusion fleets.



Oh really? Well, good for them. I retired from incursions months ago. **** got old and I earned my share :)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#393 - 2015-04-28 13:58:48 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

A carrier training time is irrelevant, its a tool that you train into to maximise your return.


It's highly relevant, you just want to discard it because it goes against your narrative. He's not the liar here, you are, desperately spinning around trying to avoid the elephant in the room, that highsec incursions are absolutely broken.


Slash it by half and see what happen. I just don't want them to go away as the OP suggested.

Risk/reward is forever broken IMO because there is no number that can be put to make a real ratio out of it.


I don't want them removed unless it's out of the question to just make incursions systems default to lowsec. In which case, yes, I want them gone.

But I'd much rather the former, it would be fun to see pockets of lowsec pop up in different places every day.


Then I guess you would delete them as the usage would be extremely low...Why keep the code running at that point...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#394 - 2015-04-28 14:00:00 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Then I guess you would delete them as the usage would be extremely low...Why keep the code running at that point...


Honestly? I just want to see risk vs reward not be so obscenely unbalanced. Incursions are ridiculous right now, and they either need more risk or less isk. My preference would be for more risk.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#395 - 2015-04-28 14:05:51 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Then I guess you would delete them as the usage would be extremely low...Why keep the code running at that point...


Honestly? I just want to see risk vs reward not be so obscenely unbalanced. Incursions are ridiculous right now, and they either need more risk or less isk. My preference would be for more risk.


I might be wrong but I don't forsee risk being added. At least not directly like spawning only in low sec. Corp/wardec changes maybe but don't hold your breath for that.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#396 - 2015-04-28 14:09:38 UTC
Also, incursion fleets rely on OGB. Without OGB support incursioners would earn much less.
Mario Putzo
#397 - 2015-04-28 14:14:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

Then I guess you would delete them as the usage would be extremely low...Why keep the code running at that point...


Honestly? I just want to see risk vs reward not be so obscenely unbalanced. Incursions are ridiculous right now, and they either need more risk or less isk. My preference would be for more risk.


Oh get off it. Risk/Reward is not a balancing point. You know it, I know it, everyone who plays this game knows it is a lemon. Its something whiners say to attempt to legitimize their complaint and gain support from other tryhards who pretend to believe risk/reward is actually relevant.

Case in point, LS is the most risky and dangerous space in the game...and also the poorest.

NS is where you go if you want to build sandcastles
LS is where you go it you want to do a bit of everything, or nothing at all.
WH space is where you go if you want to build slightly different sandcastles.
HS is where you go if you want to enjoy the PVE aspect of EVE.

Fun thing about it, anyone can go anywhere, whenever they want.

EVE isn't fair, EVE isn't equal. Different places offer different things. NS puts down billions in infrastructure to get statistically the best production, they put down billions in POS to get the best moon minerals, they have access to the best loot drops, they have access to the best array of mining minerals (which got better today).

Lots and lots of stuff NS has that no one else gets in KSpace, and on the individual level, risk doesn't get any more volatile from the moment you spawn in your very first rookie ship.

Seems to me like I said before, lots of whine in here simply because HS offers something that NS doesn't, a liscence to print isk. Boo hoo. Ask CCP to make NS income better, because reducing HS income from one event isn't going to change the fact that HS is just a better place to live if you want to bang out pure isk/hr.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#398 - 2015-04-28 14:20:01 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

Seems to me like I said before, lots of whine in here simply because HS offers something that NS doesn't, a liscence to print isk. Boo hoo. Ask CCP to make NS income better, because reducing HS income from one event isn't going to change the fact that HS is just a better place to live if you want to bang out pure isk/hr.


No. Inflation is a bad thing, and we need less of it, not vastly more.

The simple fact of the matter is that the safest space in the game should not as lucrative as incursions are. The end. Rant about the rest of it all you like, that is an absolute truth.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#399 - 2015-04-28 14:24:02 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I know from our years of posting together here that you're smarter than that, and all it takes is a tiny bit of thought and effort to see the truth. You aren't like these people, so don't post like them.


I'm on the fence because of a lack of information to form a fully legitimate opinion. One must take everything you read on these forums with a sceptical eye/pinch of salt.

I've not had time with incursions to work out where all the variables sit so I cannot make a fully informed judgement around them.

tl;dr: A lack of enough pertinent facts prevents me from making a substantive conclusion.
Mario Putzo
#400 - 2015-04-28 14:24:46 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

Seems to me like I said before, lots of whine in here simply because HS offers something that NS doesn't, a liscence to print isk. Boo hoo. Ask CCP to make NS income better, because reducing HS income from one event isn't going to change the fact that HS is just a better place to live if you want to bang out pure isk/hr.


No. Inflation is a bad thing, and we need less of it, not vastly more.

The simple fact of the matter is that the safest space in the game should not as lucrative as incursions are. The end. Rant about the rest of it all you like, that is an absolute truth.


Why shouldn't it be? If CCP didn't like it, why buff them 6 months ago. Clearly CCP feels Incursions are fine as they are, the only folks who seem opposed to them are the same folks who show up in every "Whaaa HS Risk/Reward" whinathon.

Risk/Reward is not a balance mechanic, and it never has been. Its a placebo.